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Post by cyphersmith on May 17, 2022 15:33:08 GMT
I hear you on the drag queens, but I don't know that I agree. A totally passable MtF who just hasn't had surgery yet, who doesn't have a deep voice and stubble? As far as I'm concerned they don't even have to pass. We already have clowns (I mean people dressing up as clowns) where it's women wearing men's clothes, fake make-up stubble, short hair,, "Hobo" clown style doing children's parties and reading programs (I know, my buddy's Mom used to do that as a Hobo-clown, she even did substitute teaching for Pre-school and K-2nd in her Hobo-clown getup), and never had any issues there. I've never seen the problem with men wearing women's clothes. Now, that said, that's not drag. Men wearing women's clothes is barely the tip of the drag iceberg... and it's the rest of the drag baggage that I want to keep away from children. And most drag queens do as well, at least the respectable, non-pedo ones do. I don't see a problem with it, any more than I would have a problem with women dressed in that manner to read to children. Doubt it. Yeah, you understand pretty much nothing about why they do it. Some are doing it to point out the ridiculousness of societal norms. That women dressed the exact same way wouldn't be bothered about what they're doing while they are. Though it's also about the fact that even women dressed that way will be sexually assaulted and blamed for it because of their dress. Consider the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. That's exactly what they do. All they do is charity work. Good work. Fuck your normalizing bullshit.
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Post by Maxperson on May 17, 2022 16:23:20 GMT
You are misrepresenting anecdotes as data. Fuck off. www.childrenshospital.org/programs/center-gender-surgery-program"The Center for Gender Surgery at Boston Children's Hospital offers gender affirmation surgery services to eligible adolescents and young adults who are ready to take this step in their journey. It is the first center of its kind in the U.S. in a major pediatric hospital setting." It may not be common, but it does happen. All you need is for the minor to want it, the parents to agree, and to find some progressive psych to agree that it's okay.
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Post by Devoid on May 17, 2022 18:18:29 GMT
www.childrenshospital.org/programs/center-gender-surgery-program"The Center for Gender Surgery at Boston Children's Hospital offers gender affirmation surgery services to eligible adolescents and young adults who are ready to take this step in their journey. It is the first center of its kind in the U.S. in a major pediatric hospital setting." It may not be common, but it does happen. All you need is for the minor to want it, the parents to agree, and to find some progressive psych to agree that it's okay. For all involved in this discussion, here are the requirements[1] for the aforementioned surgical procedures performed at Boston Children's Hospital.
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Post by cyphersmith on May 17, 2022 18:51:33 GMT
You are misrepresenting anecdotes as data. Fuck off. www.childrenshospital.org/programs/center-gender-surgery-program"The Center for Gender Surgery at Boston Children's Hospital offers gender affirmation surgery services to eligible adolescents and young adults who are ready to take this step in their journey. It is the first center of its kind in the U.S. in a major pediatric hospital setting." It may not be common, but it does happen. All you need is for the minor to want it, the parents to agree, and to find some progressive psych to agree that it's okay. So, some 17 year olds can get it there. And it really takes a long time to even GET to that point. Which most trans people aren't going to do until they are adults.
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Post by 3catcircus on May 17, 2022 19:44:39 GMT
You are misrepresenting anecdotes as data. Fuck off. I notice you like to demand we believe the news when it supports your arguments because Fact! Trust the Science! Believe All Womyn! But, when the news doesn't support your argument, they're merely "anecdotes." You aren't entitled to your own facts, you don't get to "TrUsT tHe ScIeNcE - No!!! Not like that!!" or demand we believe that those carrying XY chromosomes are women.
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Post by Maxperson on May 17, 2022 20:07:18 GMT
www.childrenshospital.org/programs/center-gender-surgery-program"The Center for Gender Surgery at Boston Children's Hospital offers gender affirmation surgery services to eligible adolescents and young adults who are ready to take this step in their journey. It is the first center of its kind in the U.S. in a major pediatric hospital setting." It may not be common, but it does happen. All you need is for the minor to want it, the parents to agree, and to find some progressive psych to agree that it's okay. So, some 17 year olds can get it there. And it really takes a long time to even GET to that point. Which most trans people aren't going to do until they are adults. 15 for the chest surgery at that hospital. And... www.cbsnews.com/news/sex-change-treatment-for-kids-on-the-rise/" The report details 97 girls and boys treated between 1998 and 2010; the youngest was 4 years old. Kids that young and their families get psychological counseling and are monitored until the first signs of puberty emerge, usually around age 11 or 12. Then children are given puberty-blocking drugs, in monthly $1,000 injections or implants imbedded in the arm." "In another Pediatrics report, a Texas doctor says he's also provided sex-changing treatment to an increasing number of children; so has a clinic at Children's Hospital Los Angeles where the 8-year-old is a patient." Fucking with the hormones of children should get you life in prison.
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Post by cyphersmith on May 17, 2022 22:40:11 GMT
So, some 17 year olds can get it there. And it really takes a long time to even GET to that point. Which most trans people aren't going to do until they are adults. 15 for the chest surgery at that hospital. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that some girls that young get breast reduction for medical reasons, such as to prevent back issues. Happens with non-trans kids and has happened with them much longer than they have been used as a treatment for trans kids. Such as when a girl starts puberty too young. These things have been used for a long time. They're safe and reversible. Another thing to keep in mind is that trans people who do not start transition until adulthood are MUCH more likely to have significant mental health issues. Transitioning is better for their mental health than not. And before you bring up people changing their minds, that happens in about 5% of the cases. For many treatments, this would be considered a phenomenal success rate. Further, "an increasing number of children" could mean anything. And it could be for just about any reason, such as the possibility that gender dysphoria has simply been underdiagnosed in the past, much like autism.
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Post by Maxperson on May 17, 2022 23:44:27 GMT
15 for the chest surgery at that hospital. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that some girls that young get breast reduction for medical reasons, such as to prevent back issues. Happens with non-trans kids and has happened with them much longer than they have been used as a treatment for trans kids. Such as when a girl starts puberty too young. These things have been used for a long time. They're safe and reversible. Another thing to keep in mind is that trans people who do not start transition until adulthood are MUCH more likely to have significant mental health issues. Transitioning is better for their mental health than not. And before you bring up people changing their minds, that happens in about 5% of the cases. For many treatments, this would be considered a phenomenal success rate. Further, "an increasing number of children" could mean anything. And it could be for just about any reason, such as the possibility that gender dysphoria has simply been underdiagnosed in the past, much like autism. The point is that they are engaging in gender surgeries for kids with gender dysphoria. All the rest is just an excuse.
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Post by cyphersmith on May 17, 2022 23:51:09 GMT
I honestly wouldn't be surprised to find out that some girls that young get breast reduction for medical reasons, such as to prevent back issues. Happens with non-trans kids and has happened with them much longer than they have been used as a treatment for trans kids. Such as when a girl starts puberty too young. These things have been used for a long time. They're safe and reversible. Another thing to keep in mind is that trans people who do not start transition until adulthood are MUCH more likely to have significant mental health issues. Transitioning is better for their mental health than not. And before you bring up people changing their minds, that happens in about 5% of the cases. For many treatments, this would be considered a phenomenal success rate. Further, "an increasing number of children" could mean anything. And it could be for just about any reason, such as the possibility that gender dysphoria has simply been underdiagnosed in the past, much like autism. The point is that they are engaging in gender surgeries for kids with gender dysphoria. All the rest is just an excuse. Honestly don't care. If it helps them, that's all to the good.
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Post by cyphersmith on May 17, 2022 23:54:04 GMT
You are misrepresenting anecdotes as data. Fuck off. I notice you like to demand we believe the news when it supports your arguments because Fact! Trust the Science! Believe All Womyn! But, when the news doesn't support your argument, they're merely "anecdotes." You aren't entitled to your own facts, you don't get to "TrUsT tHe ScIeNcE - No!!! Not like that!!" or demand we believe that those carrying XY chromosomes are women. So is Caster Semenya a man or a woman? Cause by your definition, she's a man. Even though she was born with a vagina and grew breasts. And taking single incidents and claiming they represent everyone is the fucking definition of anecdotal. Prove that they have a higher incidence of any of the things your broken brain thinks that they do, then get back to me.
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Post by Maxperson on May 18, 2022 1:39:18 GMT
The point is that they are engaging in gender surgeries for kids with gender dysphoria. All the rest is just an excuse. Honestly don't care. If it helps them, that's all to the good. And that's the thing. We don't understand hormones to any great degree other than to screw with them hurts kids. Their hormones are all over the map at those ages. It's criminal to allow a transition before they settle down.
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Post by cyphersmith on May 18, 2022 1:51:42 GMT
Honestly don't care. If it helps them, that's all to the good. And that's the thing. We don't understand hormones to any great degree other than to screw with them hurts kids. Their hormones are all over the map at those ages. It's criminal to allow a transition before they settle down. I don't think so, especially since it helps them. We do know that people who begin their transition with puberty blockers are mentally healthier. Puberty blockers don't change which hormones are all over the map. They prevent them entirely, keeping them pre-pubescent. Then when they actually begin their transition with hormones, their body hasn't gone through the changes that their assigned gender would have put it through. Making the transition smoother. And I can make a pretty good bet as to WHY they're mentally healthier. They don't face as much trouble as adults as people who transition after puberty is over. They look and feel to themselves more like their own gender.
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Post by evileeyore on May 18, 2022 5:13:27 GMT
They're safe and reversible. They are not "reversible", that is a lie. The changes done cannot be "undone", once they've been on hormones, there is no "going" back to the way they were, only forward with more changes that hormones can bring to the body they now have. That is the damage you want done to children who have no way of knowing who they want to be because kids have no experience being anybody, let alone enough to understand what it would mean to be someone else. And that "5%" who were pressured into undergoing hormone therapy and surgery, their blood on the altar is worth it right? You do know that the suicide rate for post-operative trannies isn't much better than it is for pre-op right? So you aren't advocating to actually help anyone, you're advocating to mess with children because giving them sexual agency means they're on the menu.
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Post by cyphersmith on May 18, 2022 15:10:35 GMT
They're safe and reversible. They are not "reversible", that is a lie. Puberty blockers, which I was talking about, ARE reversible. Oh, fuck off. The reason that the suicide rate is high is because people like you are assholes and look down on them. Not because they didn't get help.
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Post by evileeyore on May 18, 2022 18:05:01 GMT
Puberty blockers, which I was talking about, ARE reversible. No, it isn't. The years of going in one direction cannot be undone. This is one of the reasons successful transsexuals wish they could have begun transitioning earlier, because the changes that are done during puberty are foundational. Give a young girl testosterone and she grows a deeper voice, denser bone structure, etc, if she goes off of them at 16 because "Oh no the last 5+ years were a mistake, I wish I knew better" and no, she isn't getting that feminine voice and figure back. That depth of voice, those bones will be with her. Inversely stick a young boy on testosterone blockers for a few years and you've shot his chance of being a "macho looking manly" man. Depending on when he was on the blockers, he'll always be slight of frame, frailer, higher pitched in the voice. Is it the best to require they wait until they are "adults" (I say 16 personally, just a 'gut' feeling*)? Maybe not, but you won't be doing is allowing transtrenders and pressured youths to screw themselves up, which if they reverse their notions about themselves, and frankly all kids play with identity when their young (how many of us went through some 'weird' phase we look back on now and shake out heads at†). † Man, if I had a dollar for every Grunge kiddie I knew who hit their early twenties and suddenly felt so very, embarrassed at their phase... I'd have enough for breakfast. Okay, not a lot, but I really didn't like Grunge, so yeah, not a lot of them in my circles. But now imagine if they'd all transitioned and then "woke up" in their early twenties realizing they'd made a choice that wasn't just a ridiculous fashion statement and music preference. Actually you fuck, I don't look down on us. I'm trans. Transhumanist. It's great we're at the minimal level we're at now so some trans can actually become the people they want to be, we aren't anywhere near the level of technology or understanding for me, I'll die before we get there. But that doesn't mean I happy with you pitching kids into the gears so we can increase our understanding and knowledge at their expense, what's next cyph, injecting die into their eyes to change the color? And I'm even less happy about the pedos using trans as a cover to sneak their agenda in. Actually quite often the "help" your championing isn't help at all. It's something that works for those with actual physical/sexual dysphoria, being touted as the panacea for all "who question their identity", when quite often what they need is just support and time to find those answers‡ (and often some therapy to help with abuse and traumas), what that "5% of failures" (BTW that's the old number, it's climbed to 8% since you last checked, mate) needed that your culture of "ONE OF US!" doesn't foster. And I wonder how many of the post-op suicides would have detransitioned if had been an option, or wouldn't have committed suicide had they gotten therapy, support, and time to figure out what they actually needed instead of the panacea of surgery and hormones? But, oh well I geuss, best just shut up, sit back, and keep greasing the wheels of PROGRESS for the TransCulture cyphersmith prefers. ‡ And sometimes that answer is "You can't have what you want, learn to survive with what you have" instead of carving more and more off yourself... remember Plastic surgery addiction is a dysphoria as well, it's just not the sex one and won't help to expand sexual agency to children, so the lobby to make it kewl and protected isn't very strong.
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