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Post by cyphersmith on Aug 10, 2020 15:57:14 GMT
The question is - will either work? The Democrat bill is supposed to give people more than the Republican bill or Trump's decrets. So you might not need to read the fine print to realize that it's the Republicans that are blocking things because they don't want to help the people as much as the Democrats do. At best you think at least Trump is trying to do something, but the Democrats would achieve more. The pay roll tax elimination thing sounds like something that seems to require more work to explain why it's bad or poorly thought out. In the leftist reddit bubble it seems the headline has quickly moved from "removing pay roll tax" to "removing social security". With the payroll tax thing, those two are actually two different things. Trumps EO regarding FICA is just a deferral, meaning you don't have to pay that tax for the rest of the year, but you will still have to pay it. The removing the payroll tax thing is something that Trump promised the other day. He said that if reelected he will push for the removal of the payroll tax to be permanent. Many people are saying that is a backdoor to getting rid of Social Security. Because as it stands right now, the Social Security trust fund will run out in about 15 years. If you remove the personal payroll portion of the tax, that's going to happen faster, maybe in 5-7 years. At that point, the amount Social Security will be able to pay out is going to decrease. Unchanged, when the fund runs out in 15 years, Social Security would still be able to pay out about 75% of benefits, IIRC. But if you've removed half of your funding to Social Security, that amount it will be able to pay out is going to be cut in half, to less than 40%. Which pretty much means Social Security would be pretty much useless. |
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Post by mustrumridcully on Aug 11, 2020 10:58:33 GMT
It should be noted that even the" left" description isn't accurate either.
For now, he only wants to deferr the tax. Which means you don't pay it as you get your salary, you pay it when you file your taxes. Trump promises it will be eliminated entirely when he gets re-elected, but he actually can't do it as President alone.
But it seems obviously how it would work:
- In the short term, people say. "Thanks to Trump, I got more spare money!" (asuming they aren't already unemployed."
- People spend that money, boosting the economy. "Thanks to Trump, the economy is recovering!"
- Next year, they file their taxes. Suddenly they realize they owe a lot of money to the government. If Biden is president, the democrats and biden are stealing people's heard earned money and are tanking the economy. If Trump is president, it doesn't matter, he'll bullshit his way out of it anyway.
It sounds too clever to be Trump's plan.
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Post by kirinke on Aug 11, 2020 12:59:28 GMT
Probably Millers or Mitch. Those two are relatively clever, if evil.
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Post by Maxperson on Aug 11, 2020 13:35:51 GMT
Problem is, there's no money in most states to pay for this and it'll take months to set up, even if some states do have the money for it. So it's really empty political theater. Sadly, though, you are right. It will play with the people who don't read the fine print. Especially the part about the payroll taxes. They see 'taxes' and say ooo.. I don't have to pay! It's a deferral, you will have to pay eventually and if it's decided down the line that you don't, social security is fucked.
So it really doesn't help anyone, it just has the 'appearance' of helping, which is about all Trump is capable of.
Sure. The APPEARANCE of helping will still get him votes. The APPEARANCE of being against the help will still cost the Democrats. Haven't you ever heard of the saying that perception is greater than reality? It's a brilliant move. |
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Post by kirinke on Aug 11, 2020 15:36:07 GMT
And people are stupid enough to believe it. Agent K was a wise man.
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Post by Maxperson on Aug 12, 2020 2:39:37 GMT
And people are stupid enough to believe it. Agent K was a wise man. Stupid people vote. |
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Post by kirinke on Aug 12, 2020 13:13:33 GMT
Which is why we are in the mess we are in now. I'm not wrong.
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Post by Maxperson on Aug 12, 2020 13:31:01 GMT
Which is why we are in the mess we are in now. I'm not wrong. This wasn't about you, though. I'm just saying that what Trump did was a brilliant move, because people are stupid and it will help him and hurt the Democrats if they oppose it. |
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Post by kirinke on Aug 12, 2020 13:37:28 GMT
I'm not disagreeing with you in theory. Most of the news though is pointing out how the payroll tax deferral isn't doing anyone any favors. Come tax time, the birds will come home to roost. So it won't help them with Trump's base, but that's a given and that's all Trump cares about right now.
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Post by kirinke on Aug 13, 2020 13:04:36 GMT
160,ooo+ dead due to Covid-19 and Trump bitches about shower heads. Then the Energy department rolls over and says okay. Lovely.
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Post by Maxperson on Aug 14, 2020 13:41:41 GMT
160,ooo+ dead due to Covid-19 and Trump bitches about shower heads. Then the Energy department rolls over and says okay. Lovely.
It's not 160k due to miscounting, but, it's still very high. Probably in the neighborhood of 120k, which still means it dwarfs the worst seasons of all other flu viruses combined. |
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Post by Maxperson on Aug 14, 2020 13:42:58 GMT
On topic. I think it's very amusing that the party of the poor and oppresses has a presidential ticket consisting of an old rich white guy and a cop.
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Post by kirinke on Aug 14, 2020 14:09:07 GMT
Prosecutor actually. Still, when your other choice is a babbling dofus who needs his depends changed on a regular basis and a smiling hypocritical racist who calls his wife mother, you take what you can get.
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Post by kirinke on Aug 14, 2020 16:13:31 GMT
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Post by Maxperson on Aug 14, 2020 21:08:51 GMT
Prosecutor actually. Still, when your other choice is a babbling dofus who needs his depends changed on a regular basis and a smiling hypocritical racist who calls his wife mother, you take what you can get. Yeah, but she oversaw police misconduct and called herself the top cop. Still amusing.  |
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