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Post by Maxperson on Feb 5, 2021 15:23:29 GMT
Hmm... Let me think. 🤔🤔🧐 Because China pays Beijing Biden to look the other way? And what's the reason we looked the other way for the last 4 years?
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Post by mustrumridcully on Feb 5, 2021 16:39:42 GMT
1. It are Muslims. The guys that blew up the Twin Towers, as everyone knows. It's just karma, who cares about them, just because they weren't actually involved with any Arab or Afghanistan religious extremists?
2. Because China is one of the big growth markets still around in the world, and if we sanction them seriously, we risk destroying the entire capitalistic system that the West is built on. Or at least pissing off some powerful and wealthy people that want to see their numbers go up.
3. Because China is producing all the good stuff we rely on and if we can't have that anymore, there will be riots. We need our cheap goods imported, we can't do it ourselves anymore, it would be too expensive to build up the production capacity and train and pay the personnel. It doesn't make those numbers go up fast enough!
4. No one has any interest of risking to get into an armed conflict with a large nation like China. They got nukes, fighter planes, cruise missiles, missile defenses, drones and hordes of people. Bombing ragheads in 3rd world countries is a much better use to keep the military industry afloat than an actual war with a serious opponent. Better have some foreigners on Chinese lands to the Chinese, than have citizens and soldiers of western countries be killed on Chinese, European or US soil or international waters.
There is a lot of risk and not a lot of reward. We would have watched the holocaust, too, if Germany didn't also want to conquer Europe with force.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 5, 2021 18:46:02 GMT
And what's the reason we looked the other way for the last 4 years? We didn't exactly look the other way. Trade War? Though now that I check more deeply, apparently Biden is quietly continuing the Trade War with China, that he promised to end. sighIf Biden had led with "I'll keep doing everything Trump was doing but be way less of an ass about it" I'd have been happy to vote for him and Top Cop Harris. Instead he ran on "I'll undue everything Trump did, even the good stuff because I'm not Trump". Though to be faur, it's entirely possible I'd have still not voted for him, but that would have been solely down to my anger with the DNC and refusal to reward them for their bad behavior. I mean, I'd really appreciate some saber rattling over the Uighur thing and a serious pushback against China being on the UN Human Rights Council, but I settled for Trade War under Trump, I guess I'll just keep uselessly writing my congress and settle for Trade War under Biden. 1. It are Muslims. The guys that blew up the Twin Towers, as everyone knows. It's just karma, who cares about them, just because they weren't actually involved with any Arab or Afghanistan religious extremists?
2. Because China is one of the big growth markets still around in the world, and if we sanction them seriously, we risk destroying the entire capitalistic system that the West is built on. Or at least pissing off some powerful and wealthy people that want to see their numbers go up.
3. Because China is producing all the good stuff we rely on and if we can't have that anymore, there will be riots. We need our cheap goods imported, we can't do it ourselves anymore, it would be too expensive to build up the production capacity and train and pay the personnel. It doesn't make those numbers go up fast enough!
4. No one has any interest of risking to get into an armed conflict with a large nation like China. They got nukes, fighter planes, cruise missiles, missile defenses, drones and hordes of people. Bombing ragheads in 3rd world countries is a much better use to keep the military industry afloat than an actual war with a serious opponent. Better have some foreigners on Chinese lands to the Chinese, than have citizens and soldiers of western countries be killed on Chinese, European or US soil or international waters. There is a lot of risk and not a lot of reward. We would have watched the holocaust, too, if Germany didn't also want to conquer Europe with force.
I would like to think we would have at least saber rattled at Germany and Hitler even if we didn't have any Jews running our financial sector or with politicians in pocket. But I suspect that had Hitler been content with pushing east instead of west, no one but Stalin would have cared. 1 - I'm against ethnic cleansing regardless of the ethnic, even if some ethnics are dirtier than others. [/joke] 2 - Capitalism is stronker than China! Capitalism will survive destruction of all capitalistic pig-dog economies! Capitalism will rise again! 2b - And I'm pretty sure if you ask the right groups right now, they'd happily let the rich lose all their money. Unfortunately the only politician I can think of who would also be happy to go along with this is Sanders, and we know what the DNC and the GOP think about my man Bernie. 3 - I think people would get over that. Especially if we cut their pwescious stimmies and let them go back to work making all that stuff locally. 4 - I doubt China wants to initiate a nuclear land war in Asia. But you know what? We need to do something or China will do something for us. And it would be better if it kicked off on our terms, than when China has finally decided we are weak enough to be annexed.
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Post by Maxperson on Feb 5, 2021 21:34:43 GMT
And what's the reason we looked the other way for the last 4 years? We didn't exactly look the other way. Trade War? Though now that I check more deeply, apparently Biden is quietly continuing the Trade War with China, that he promised to end. sighIf Biden had led with "I'll keep doing everything Trump was doing but be way less of an ass about it" I'd have been happy to vote for him and Top Cop Harris. Instead he ran on "I'll undue everything Trump did, even the good stuff because I'm not Trump". Though to be faur, it's entirely possible I'd have still not voted for him, but that would have been solely down to my anger with the DNC and refusal to reward them for their bad behavior. I mean, I'd really appreciate some saber rattling over the Uighur thing and a serious pushback against China being on the UN Human Rights Council, but I settled for Trade War under Trump, I guess I'll just keep uselessly writing my congress and settle for Trade War under Biden. We completely looked the other way during the Trump years. The trade war was over uneven trading practices and China coming after our tech. It wasn't about the Uighurs at all.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 6, 2021 3:01:18 GMT
We completely looked the other way during the Trump years. The trade war was over uneven trading practices and China coming after our tech. It wasn't about the Uighurs at all. Yes, I know. My point was we were doing something to stand up to China, even if it wasn't for all the things I'd like. And since I've discovered that Trump 2.0 is also doing the bare minimum to stand up to Winnie Xi, I guess, as I said, I'll go back to bitching at my congress people and hoping a nuke accidentally get's launched China finally pisses someone off enough they do something. Same with Russia and it's slow expansionism.
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Post by kirinke on Feb 6, 2021 16:22:21 GMT
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Post by 3catcircus on Feb 6, 2021 19:38:05 GMT
*Now* you want Dems to follow rules? It was okay for them not to for the last 3+ decades? Does this extend to removing Swallwell from his committee seats for being involved with a Chinese spy? Does this extend to AOC recently caught lying about her whereabouts on Jan 6th?
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Post by kirinke on Feb 6, 2021 20:59:57 GMT
When the Republicans repudiate Trump for his role in the January 6th riots and all the other crap he's pulled, then we can talk.
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Post by Maxperson on Feb 7, 2021 2:37:27 GMT
We completely looked the other way during the Trump years. The trade war was over uneven trading practices and China coming after our tech. It wasn't about the Uighurs at all. Yes, I know. My point was we were doing something to stand up to China, even if it wasn't for all the things I'd like. And since I've discovered that Trump 2.0 is also doing the bare minimum to stand up to Winnie Xi, I guess, as I said, I'll go back to bitching at my congress people and hoping a nuke accidentally get's launched China finally pisses someone off enough they do something. Same with Russia and it's slow expansionism. I agree with your point, but it just didn't come across that way when 3cat said that Biden was looking the other way about the Uighurs and then I said that we've looked the other way about them for 4 years, then you said that we didn't look the other way. That comes across as at least part of your point being that we were doing something about them. That's where the disconnect was. The trade war was one of the few things I agreed with Trump about.
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Post by kirinke on Feb 7, 2021 16:29:29 GMT
The only sticking point with the trade war is that it really hurt US citizens more, because the costs went directly to our pockets. So it did no good.
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Post by Maxperson on Feb 7, 2021 17:03:52 GMT
The only sticking point with the trade war is that it really hurt US citizens more, because the costs went directly to our pockets. So it did no good. Yes, there are casualties in war. It hurt China far more, though, which means that if it becomes protracted, they will come to the table with a much more favorable offer. They just have to know that we are serious, which requires multiple presidents in a row to continue it.
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Post by 3catcircus on Feb 7, 2021 18:25:05 GMT
The only sticking point with the trade war is that it really hurt US citizens more, because the costs went directly to our pockets. So it did no good. Yes, there are casualties in war. It hurt China far more, though, which means that if it becomes protracted, they will come to the table with a much more favorable offer. They just have to know that we are serious, which requires multiple presidents in a row to continue it. This. China's economy was in a free fall even before covid but they hid the reality of it - now that Beijing Biden is in office, they'll be more bold than if Trump remained. We were winning the trade war and now victory will be snatched from the jaws of defeat...
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Post by kirinke on Feb 7, 2021 21:39:27 GMT
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 13, 2021 0:59:16 GMT
Everyone needs to read this. And if you think you don;t need to read, then rest assured, you really, really need to read this.
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Post by evileeyore on Mar 9, 2021 5:54:24 GMT
Huh, Big Papa was right all along...
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