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Post by evileeyore on Feb 1, 2022 20:44:16 GMT
That is what I mean when it is part of the mythic machinery of the USA: that the notion of "Free Speech" - like "The Founders" and "The Second Amendment" is part of the machinery of control and abrogation. Again, inverted commas - these represent idealized, propagandized forms; their real substance is kind of irrelevant to my argument. Yes, that's what the media and politician's do. That is done elsewhere as well, and to greater degrees in countries without Free Speech. You know, like in Canada where one can be jailed for misgendering another [1][2][3], or where the bobbies come around and ask what "you meant by that tweet/facebook post" 4. At least in the US we can still politically disagree with the ruling class and not go to jail for just voicing those disagreements. Or calling each other mean words on occasion. Either you've downgraded a number of European countries from First World status, or you simply aren't paying attention. I wonder which? You mistyped "32% too few"*. But that's okay, I get it, you don't want a populace capable of resisting a tyrannical government. * Yes, I consider myself part of that problem. I don't own nor wish to own firearms. I have no need, but "have no need" does not mean "see no need in the future" or even "wants to see that right abrogated for others". But I'm not a tyrant. Weren't being given enough free stuff? I don't trust the government of other countries (I mean even less than I trust this one). I'd constantly be afraid of speaking my mind lest I end up in a third world jail in some "first" world country like Spain, Italy, Greece, the UK*, Canada*... * Okay, the UK and Canada have first world jails, but you get what I'm saying. 1 nationalpost.com/news/b-c-father-arrested-held-in-jail-for-repeatedly-violating-court-orders-over-childs-gender-transition-therapy2 www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6687123/Mother-arrested-children-calling-transgender-woman-man.html3 www.womenarehuman.com/man-convicted-sentenced-for-misgendering-insulting-male-who-identifies-as-female/4 www.hlmediacomms.com/2013/05/29/high-court-rules-that-bercows-lord-mcalpine-tweet-was-libellous/Not the situation I'm actually referring to, but still. Innocently worded (but implying) tweet get's someone sued by their political "betters". What I was refering to (but couldn;t find just now) were a rash of people in hte last few years in the UK being hassled by the police for tweets they've made, it's egregiously bad in Scotland who have an actual unit dedicated to "policing social media". It's gotten dystopic out there.
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Post by Devoid on Feb 2, 2022 0:20:05 GMT
Just to confirm, evileeyore, asserts that the United States is the greatest country in the world while Libtard has asserted that Finland is. Instead of comparing other countries let us focus on whether the US or Finland is the better country and discuss why. Here are some of the criteria listed by Libtard for determining "Greatness": - Effective representation and solid democratic processes?
- A political system free of corruption and undue influence?
- Access to free higher education?
- Access to healthcare?
- Access to free, effective legal counsel?
- An enlightened criminal justice system?
- Care of the elderly and vulnerable?
- Equality of opportunity, regardless of race or economic circumstances?
- A citizenry which does not feel the need to arm itself, sanctioned by society's own retrograde laws?
What other criteria should be considered? Perhaps...
- Privacy rights?
- Income distribution/disparity of the population?
- Intellectual property rights?
- GDP per capita?
- Social mobility?
- Debt management (including individual and government agencies)
- Infrastructure management?
- Demographic bigotry?
- Other criteria not already listed?
Is it even remotely possible to have an objective, good-faith discussion on this subject? Are both of you capable? If so, let's hear your case.
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Post by Libtard on Feb 2, 2022 5:35:43 GMT
How big a resistance were you thinking? Since 1968, 1.7 million people have either blown their own brains out or killed someone else. Is it to save on mental health costs?
But you subscribe wholeheartedly to your national mythology, so it doesn't matter.
For a communist, you've got some pretty weird ideas.
Yeah. Millions of Americans get arrested every year in Europe for hate speech. Best to get a gun, hunker down in your basement, and get ready for the redcoats coming over the hill. And don't forget to use your orgone energy accumulator every day.
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Post by kirinke on Feb 2, 2022 12:24:27 GMT
From the looks of it, no. They forget that every nation has it's share of warts, bad history and things that are shameful. Every government is a living thing that constantly needs improvement. The US is a good country, but it could be much better.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 2, 2022 16:38:10 GMT
Is it even remotely possible to have an [1]objective, [2]good-faith discussion on this subject? 1 - No. There a a myriad of flaws with the methodology of sources people will reach for, the greatest being it's often impossible to even know what is the exact standard they are measuring. B) there can be no objective measure because we disagree on what constitutes objective standards. Subjectively we each have our own standards. 2 - Sure. When I make arguments, they tend to be in good faith. When I make info graphic posts or link to satire sites I'm taking the piss on my opponents (or even "my side" as I have no 'side'*), but even then I'm usually aiming at trying to induce though (though, in whom? We have no one left). * Not true, I have agreements with people, I have disagreements with people, and I am firmly against the people who demand I pick a side, like kirinke. Shitpost for kirinke: How U.S. sanctions are driving Afghanistan to famineJoe Biden never ended the war in AfghanistanMmm, I'm lovin that "return to decency"...
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 2, 2022 16:53:43 GMT
How big a resistance were you thinking? Since 1968, 1.7 million people have either blown their own brains out or killed someone else. Is it to save on mental health costs? I'm glad you at least correctly identified that as a mental healthcare issue rather than the crazed notion it's a gun control issue. Actually I don;t, but as you're one of those "my side or the wrong side" peeps, I can see how you'd blindly make that accusation. I'm adult without a child's gleeful innocence and demands. I've seen how the modern "commie" believes communism would mean they could spend all day making art or leading protests in the street, I know you're smart enough to know how communism actually goes. And yes, for a uptopian pie-in-the-sky communist, I don't believe communism can ever succeed. Because humans. Well, no, aktsually they don't. However we've had our own from this community* get (almost) get arrested† for accidentally carrying pepper spray in her purse on the plane into London... and it's gotten worse there in the last twenty years. * This was probably before your time here. Goth chick, was married to a guy in this community, had an affair with another guy whose name I always confused with another guy (Rel or reveal, I always got those two mixed up)? Yeah, sorry, it's been over 4 years, they all bailed for Facebook before we even migrated here, if they aren't diaglo or mistwell or still here, I've forgotten their names because that's how my brain rolls. I'mean, if I hadn't just scrolled through the members list I'd have forgotten 3cat was "still here" ish. A hurr-durr... I'm Florida Man, we don't have basements*, the water table's like only five feet down. Now, if you need me I'm retiring to my abandoned water-tower to watch harem anime. * Not actually true, but the water table is pretty high/shallow, and basements on non- federalgov buildings are pretty damn rare because of this.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 5, 2022 21:59:49 GMT
Remember it's a return to decency and at least he isn't Trump... Biden Reversal Gives Wall Street A Big WinThe Democratic president slammed but now backs a Trump ruling that could help private equity kingpins loot retirees’ savings.
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 6, 2022 0:58:03 GMT
Remember it's a return to decency and at least he isn't Trump... Biden Reversal Gives Wall Street A Big WinThe Democratic president slammed but now backs a Trump ruling that could help private equity kingpins loot retirees’ savings.Yeah, that's fucked up. Not really surprised, though. Aside from the quieter demeanor and lack of a desire to be a dictator, he and Trump are closer on policy than I'm comfortable with.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 6, 2022 19:01:27 GMT
Yeah, that's fucked up. Not really surprised, though. Aside from the quieter demeanor and lack of a desire to be a dictator, he and Trump are closer on policy than I'm comfortable with. They're damn near identical (policy-wise*), which is what I was telling people all year during the election, but noooo, Lefties "knew better". * And behavior wise, except Trump is shameless and bumblingly uncharismatic as fuck (but as Stalin might say "Shameless and Bumbling is it's own Charisma"†) where Biden was generally Mr. Clean On Camera (kinda, he is still uncomfortably touchy-feely with women and female children to not be a serial rapist/pedophile) with occasional "gaff". † See also Boris Johnson.
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 6, 2022 19:48:58 GMT
Yeah, that's fucked up. Not really surprised, though. Aside from the quieter demeanor and lack of a desire to be a dictator, he and Trump are closer on policy than I'm comfortable with. They're damn near identical (policy-wise*), which is what I was telling people all year during the election, but noooo, Lefties "knew better". * And behavior wise, except Trump is shameless and bumblingly uncharismatic as fuck (but as Stalin might say "Shameless and Bumbling is it's own Charisma"†) where Biden was generally Mr. Clean On Camera (kinda, he is still uncomfortably touchy-feely with women and female children to not be a serial rapist/pedophile) with occasional "gaff". † See also Boris Johnson. Very similar policy wise, but I'm not afraid that Biden will try to overthrow the government if he loses an election. Trump will and has. I never wanted Biden in the first place. He's too far right.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 6, 2022 20:00:52 GMT
... I'm not afraid that Biden will try to overthrow the government if he loses an election. Trump will and has. Ah, you're one of those "Jan 6th Truthers" aren't you. Okay, /pats the simpleton on the head, you go along now and don't eat too many crayons.
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 6, 2022 20:20:55 GMT
... I'm not afraid that Biden will try to overthrow the government if he loses an election. Trump will and has. Ah, you're one of those "Jan 6th Truthers" aren't you. Okay, /pats the simpleton on the head, you go along now and don't eat too many crayons. Please, a little bit more holding up of Congress by the people in on it in Congress, and there would have been some serious shit go down. Some of them had that intention, and had been making plans, probably with Trump's people if not Trump himself. They've proven that already.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 6, 2022 22:17:33 GMT
They've proven that already. You'll have to point to this "proof". But I strongly suspect it's being held up by pins and yarn.
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 7, 2022 1:05:22 GMT
They've proven that already. You'll have to point to this "proof". But I strongly suspect it's being held up by pins and yarn. Proven that plans happened? There is a ton of proof. There are tons of things showing the Oath Keepers working and training together to accomplish a violent prevention of the final portion of the election. There are tons of things showing the same for other far right groups. That's why the leaders of the Oath Keepers have been charged with seditious conspiracy. The Feds do not make charges that they cannot prove. They're tremendously conservative in that respect. I suspect that other far right leaders are also going to be so charged. Trump? No proof yet. Though he is, yet again, actively interfering with the investigation.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 8, 2022 18:01:36 GMT
Yeah, that's the part I was questioning. You like to just casually lump him in as though he was the mastermind the Democrats tried to paint him as immediately following the mostly peaceful protest on Jan 6th. As a private citizen I don't give a fuck what he's doing, but we'll see exactly how much sticks again this time around. You might forget I watched the Democrats flail around for 5 years trying to pin anything and everything, including fabricated Clinton bs (the Steele Dossier), on Trump to no avail. This has smelled the same since Jan 6th. And I'll point out, no one[1] is looking into why the capitol police ignored the FBI's warnings and deliberately held the police back. Coincidence or conspiracy? 1 - By which I mean in an official capacity, I'm sure there are journos out there digging to be the next Woodward and Bernstein.
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