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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 10:59:20 GMT
I'm pointing out the fact that *multiple* people have anecdotal evidence that this isn't some deadly plague. Anecdotal evidence eventually has data that confirms or denies it. Reviewing the data without a MSM or "experts" filter yields a much different conclusion. Problem is that most people (at least in the US) are science-illiterate. There was a poll over the summer, the results of which indicated that the people they polled believed that 33 million people died from COVID. Governments relied upon Imperial College modeling that predicted "meelyohns" of deaths. Those deaths haven't materialized, even in areas where they didn't lockdown or mandate masks. Some facts: 1. Virii are "programmed" to replicate. Killing hosts before they can spread to others defeats that purpose. Covid mutated in Italy - to be more contagious and much less deadly. But we don't hear this message from the media. This isn't Ebola. It also isn't measles. It's a garden-variety coronavirus. Depending upon your beliefs, this could be bioengineered by the chinks or it could be a lab escape due to their incompetence. 2. The plan was to flatten number of people being hospitalized - that's been done and over with. Regardless of which data source used, hospitalizations (and deaths) are down even as cases increase. There are several factors at play: increased testing, increased false positives due to increased testing, and the aforementioned mutation. 3. You have to sort through the data to determine that many many "new" cases occurred weeks or months ago and are just now being reported. These are not new cases or more infections. 4. The WHO estimated 750 million infected worldwide. Remove the outliers (85+ year old Italians, NY/NJ/MI/CA nursing home packing, etc ) and continue looking at the same rate of "cases" vs rate of hospitalizations and deaths - this is not all that deadly for most people and the IFR will only continue to decrease. 5. Trying to prevent people from getting sick is an impossibility unless everyone is willing to continue living in authoritarian conditions. Human nature is such that there will continue to be interviewed until herd immunity or vaccine. 6. Studies have shown that 40 - 60% of the population already have some level of T-cell immunity, making herd immunity much easier to achieve at a lower % of people being exposed. 7. Masks are not all that effective when you consider that viral particles are smaller than even the interstitial spaces in the mask weave for N95s. Yeah - that t-shirt mask is gonna be effective... Especially in light of the recent indications that it can be transmitted airborne in remote situations. And, since most people are not using masks properly to begin with, they are more harmful than not at mitigating the risk of catching it. 8. Discounting rare airborne circumstances, the most likely way of catching this is from touching infected surfaces (door handles, pens in doctor offices, etc.). Just wash your hands and live your life. And multiple people have buried loved ones. Your anecdotes are meaningless, just like your 99+% number. This illness is not about what percentage die. It's about how many get it. Yeah, and? People die all the time. Where are the lockdowns due to cancer, car crashes and heroin overdoses? They kill far more people. Why aren't we making everyone wear masks because of stomach flu - tons of people die every year due to stomach flu, according to the CDC. www.cbsnews.com/news/deaths-from-gastroenteritis-double-in-us-whats-behind-rising-rates/#app |
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 11:37:00 GMT
3cat is an idiot. It's no use trying to educate him. Just let him go his own way. While the rest of us stay as far away as possible.
Not quite true. Covid-19 is a big deal because it is new, meaning we don't have any immunity to it. It spreads quickly, across a wide spectrum of people (old young, healthy and unhealthy alike) and it is deadly. Plus we have no real effective treatment or vaccine for it. That what it boils down to.
Before you say "but Trump", he was treated with a wide range of experimental treatments, that were not FDA approved and weren't recommended and may have adverse affects. Psychosis being the least of the afore mentioned side effects (which is kinda hard to tell normally).
He also lies like shit, so there is no way of knowing if he is truly well or not. People with Covid-19 have been known to suddenly take dive health-wise after appearing healthy for a short time.
Not only that, but the dumb fucking moron is putting his entire staff, their families and people in their orbit at risk because of his stupidity. I'd be well surprised if they all don't come down with it.
Experimental drugs? Dexamethasone has been widely prescribed since 1958. Remdesivir has been around for over 10 years. I would expect that the president would receive regeneron rather than some low level schnook like you if they thought it would help him. That's just the way government works to protect each other. |
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 7, 2020 13:03:30 GMT
3cat is an idiot. It's no use trying to educate him. Just let him go his own way. While the rest of us stay as far away as possible.
Not quite true. Covid-19 is a big deal because it is new, meaning we don't have any immunity to it. It spreads quickly, across a wide spectrum of people (old young, healthy and unhealthy alike) and it is deadly. Plus we have no real effective treatment or vaccine for it. That what it boils down to.
Before you say "but Trump", he was treated with a wide range of experimental treatments, that were not FDA approved and weren't recommended and may have adverse affects. Psychosis being the least of the afore mentioned side effects (which is kinda hard to tell normally).
He also lies like shit, so there is no way of knowing if he is truly well or not. People with Covid-19 have been known to suddenly take dive health-wise after appearing healthy for a short time.
Not only that, but the dumb fucking moron is putting his entire staff, their families and people in their orbit at risk because of his stupidity. I'd be well surprised if they all don't come down with it.
That's not accurate, either. We didn't have any herd immunity or vaccine for SARS or the Swine Flu, either. Those even had higher death rates, but they didn't spread like a California wildfire, so many fewer died. This illness is entirely about how many are getting it. That's why we are locked down like this waiting for a vaccine. |
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 7, 2020 13:07:39 GMT
And multiple people have buried loved ones. Your anecdotes are meaningless, just like your 99+% number. This illness is not about what percentage die. It's about how many get it. Yeah, and? People die all the time. Where are the lockdowns due to cancer, car crashes and heroin overdoses? They kill far more people. Why aren't we making everyone wear masks because of stomach flu - tons of people die every year due to stomach flu, according to the CDC. www.cbsnews.com/news/deaths-from-gastroenteritis-double-in-us-whats-behind-rising-rates/#appFalse Equivalences are both false, and in this case fairly moronic. First, about 37k people die in car accidents annually and 15k to heroin overdoses, so maybe in your bizarro world 37k and 15k are far more than 210k, but not here in the U.S. Second, cancer isn't contagious, so it doesn't matter how many die of cancer. You aren't going to need to lock people down over it. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 7, 2020 13:24:51 GMT
We're not disagreeing with each other, for once, we just have a slightly different way of saying the same thing.  |
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 13:30:53 GMT
False Equivalences are both false, and in this case fairly moronic. First, about 37k people die in car accidents annually and 15k to heroin overdoses, so maybe in your bizarro world 37k and 15k are far more than 210k, but not here in the U.S. Second, cancer isn't contagious, so it doesn't matter how many die of cancer. You aren't going to need to lock people down over it. It doesn't matter how many people die of cancer? Wow, how cruel are you? We know that that 210k number is just not true. You can't ignore the fact that only 6% of those are due to covid and the rest are due to being immunocompromised and catching it while having comorbidities that were the direct cause or that they died from something completely unrelated while positive for covid. Someone with stage 4 cancer who catches covid and dies is not the same as a healthy person catching it. In fact, no one is actually dying from COVID - they are dying from ARDS after catching covid - same as those who die from ARDS after catching flu or pneumonia. The single biggest factors were advanced age and vitamin d deficiency. These people already had one leg in the grave when they got covid. This is no different than those with full blown AIDS dying of pneumonia or sarcoma or something else that healthy people shrug off. To look at it another way - covid has killed only 0.003% of the population in the US. |
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 7, 2020 13:41:51 GMT
False Equivalences are both false, and in this case fairly moronic. First, about 37k people die in car accidents annually and 15k to heroin overdoses, so maybe in your bizarro world 37k and 15k are far more than 210k, but not here in the U.S. Second, cancer isn't contagious, so it doesn't matter how many die of cancer. You aren't going to need to lock people down over it. It doesn't matter how many people die of cancer? Wow, how cruel are you? We know that that 210k number is just not true. You can't ignore the fact that only 6% of those are due to covid and the rest are due to being immunocompromised and catching it while having comorbidities that were the direct cause or that they died from something completely unrelated while positive for covid. Someone with stage 4 cancer who catches covid and dies is not the same as a healthy person catching it. In fact, no one is actually dying from COVID - they are dying from ARDS after catching covid - same as those who die from ARDS after catching flu or pneumonia. The single biggest factors were advanced age and vitamin d deficiency. These people already had one leg in the grave when they got covid. This is no different than those with full blown AIDS dying of pneumonia or sarcoma or something else that healthy people shrug off. To look at it another way - covid has killed only 0.003% of the population in the US. Context is your friend. CLEARLY(except you clearly can't see clearly) I was talking in the context of comparing cancer to covid, not talking about the deaths themselves. And I'm not ignoring the fact that 94% of the Covid deaths were caused by Covid triggering the underlying conditions, just like you'd trigger a gun to kill someone. Death by Covid, though is death by Covid and 100% of those deaths are caused by Covid. Edit: Except for the small percentage of mislabeled deaths. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 14:07:07 GMT
It doesn't matter how many people die of cancer? Wow, how cruel are you? We know that that 210k number is just not true. You can't ignore the fact that only 6% of those are due to covid and the rest are due to being immunocompromised and catching it while having comorbidities that were the direct cause or that they died from something completely unrelated while positive for covid. Someone with stage 4 cancer who catches covid and dies is not the same as a healthy person catching it. In fact, no one is actually dying from COVID - they are dying from ARDS after catching covid - same as those who die from ARDS after catching flu or pneumonia. The single biggest factors were advanced age and vitamin d deficiency. These people already had one leg in the grave when they got covid. This is no different than those with full blown AIDS dying of pneumonia or sarcoma or something else that healthy people shrug off. To look at it another way - covid has killed only 0.003% of the population in the US. Context is your friend. CLEARLY(except you clearly can't see clearly) I was talking in the context of comparing cancer to covid, not talking about the deaths themselves. And I'm not ignoring the fact that 94% of the Covid deaths were caused by Covid triggering the underlying conditions, just like you'd trigger a gun to kill someone. Death by Covid, though is death by Covid and 100% of those deaths are caused by Covid. Edit: Except for the small percentage of mislabeled deaths. Except it's not a small percentage. You can't claim that labeling a car crash as a covid death is ok - it's either sloppy data reporting which implies sloppy data collection, or it's willfully done because of the financial incentive to label as many deaths as caused by covid as possible. Can it be a contributor? Sure, but it isn't the primary cause of death when people are shot, in MVAs, suffering from obesity or COPD or cancer or heart disease or whatever other chronic illness they have been neglecting to take care of. If they didn't have those underlying conditions, COVID wouldn't have affected them as much as someone who is healthy. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 7, 2020 14:41:35 GMT
Covid-19 still killed them. if Covid-19 hadn't killed them, they'd still be living their lives. You're not fooling anyone pulling that shit.
Fuck that.
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 16:33:47 GMT
Covid-19 still killed them. if Covid-19 hadn't killed them, they'd still be living their lives. You're not fooling anyone pulling that shit.
Fuck that.
Someone with stage 4 cancer or end stage renal failure is d.e.d. dead. They were gonna kick anyway. Someone smooshed in a car wreck or who ODed on oxy didn't die from covid. |
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Post by cyphersmith on Oct 7, 2020 17:10:38 GMT
Covid-19 still killed them. if Covid-19 hadn't killed them, they'd still be living their lives. You're not fooling anyone pulling that shit.
Fuck that.
Someone with stage 4 cancer or end stage renal failure is d.e.d. dead. They were gonna kick anyway. Someone smooshed in a car wreck or who ODed on oxy didn't die from covid. And yet they would have died at a later time than they did had they not gotten COVID. So yes, they did die from COVID. The last two are mistakes that aren't common at all. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 7, 2020 18:21:35 GMT
Yes. but if they had Covid-19, that's going to kill them first. Jesus, 3cat, nobody is stupid enough to buy that argument.
Except maybe you.
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 18:42:03 GMT
Someone with stage 4 cancer or end stage renal failure is d.e.d. dead. They were gonna kick anyway. Someone smooshed in a car wreck or who ODed on oxy didn't die from covid. And yet they would have died at a later time than they did had they not gotten COVID. So yes, they did die from COVID. The last two are mistakes that aren't common at all. The excess death rate and the age of death for the affected as compared to those who didn't get covid, especially the elderly, show less than a year difference in life expectancy - I reiterate that these were people already on death's door. Number of deaths for leading causes of death (2017): Heart disease: 647,457 Cancer: 599,108 Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936 Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201 Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383 Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404 Diabetes: 83,564 Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672 Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633 Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173 You need to look at these numbers for 2020 when they come out and you'll see a precipitous drop in the leading causes - all of those people who kacked it this year need to be segregated by what comorbidities they had. Well find out that most of those who died "from" covid would have otherwise died from another opportunistic invader like flu, c.diff, etc. as their comorbidity progressed. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 7, 2020 18:47:11 GMT
It doesn't matter. If they hadn't have gotten Covid-19, they would have lived that much longer. Covid-19 killed them. Get that through your brain.
It's not rocket science. Hell, even I can grasp it.
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 7, 2020 19:00:48 GMT
It doesn't matter. If they hadn't have gotten Covid-19, they would have lived that much longer. Covid-19 killed them. Get that through your brain. It's not rocket science. Hell, even I can grasp it. In the big picture, feeble skeletons who would have otherwise lived less than a year are no reason to have lockdowns or destroy economies. We didn't do it for flu, fast food, booze, cars, guns, or drugs, or roundup. |
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