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Post by kirinke on Oct 5, 2020 22:45:08 GMT
Did I say anything about hating Jews? I just pointed out that if you look at the bible, being his chosen tends to lead to nine roads of sheer hell. That's biblical fact right there.
But then, you get the simplest stuff wrong so much of the time, it's no surprise you'd get that wrong too.
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 6, 2020 1:25:49 GMT
If you have to go to the last pandemic to find a counter............................yooooouuuu may be in trouble.  In the last 10 years, the worst flu season killed 61k. That's all flus combined in a 12 month period. We're at 200k in 6 months for this one virus. Oh, and we pick the wrong strains of flu for the vaccine all the time. It's basically 50/50. Same with mutations. SARS and Swine Flu were new flus that didn't even come close to Covid. We're not at 200k. Yank all of the "died with" numbers from the count and then we can talk. The CDC reported that in only 6% of cases was COVID the only cause. We also can't ever know the *actual* number of cases and the WHO overreacted early on with a 3%+ estimated IFR which is known to be totally overstated, which is why we have people hiding in their basements. We also don't know what the rtPCR CT was for reported positives - anything over 24 with an STT >8 shouldn't be reported as a positive, but it has been. Likewise, multiple tested on the same individual shouldn't be counted as separate cases, yet they are. Are people who get covid-19 dying? Yes - at the same rate as people who would die from flu and pneumonia, given their advanced age or comorbidities. Obama let thousands of people die from H1N1 and did nothing. They directed the CDC to tell the states to stop testing and counting after they hit 60 million cases in the US - we have no idea how many died from H1N1, but it is likely an order of magnitude more people than officially counted, based upon the number who we know got it and the number estimated. Similar numbers of cases and deaths, but we didn't lock down the country then - because it wasn't an election year and Obama had the press figuratively tonguing his asshole. This year's US flu season: www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm6 months. 56 million cases. 62000 deaths. Tell me again how COVID is any different? The CDC saying that only 6% of cases had Covid as the only cause isn't relevant. That's like saying that only 6% of murders have humans as the only cause. The bullets they shoot aren't counted. When you have Covid triggering an underlying condition and killing the victim, Covid is the cause, even if it's not the only cause. It pulled the trigger on that condition. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 6, 2020 12:46:51 GMT
We're not at 200k. Yank all of the "died with" numbers from the count and then we can talk. The CDC reported that in only 6% of cases was COVID the only cause. We also can't ever know the *actual* number of cases and the WHO overreacted early on with a 3%+ estimated IFR which is known to be totally overstated, which is why we have people hiding in their basements. We also don't know what the rtPCR CT was for reported positives - anything over 24 with an STT >8 shouldn't be reported as a positive, but it has been. Likewise, multiple tested on the same individual shouldn't be counted as separate cases, yet they are. Are people who get covid-19 dying? Yes - at the same rate as people who would die from flu and pneumonia, given their advanced age or comorbidities. Obama let thousands of people die from H1N1 and did nothing. They directed the CDC to tell the states to stop testing and counting after they hit 60 million cases in the US - we have no idea how many died from H1N1, but it is likely an order of magnitude more people than officially counted, based upon the number who we know got it and the number estimated. Similar numbers of cases and deaths, but we didn't lock down the country then - because it wasn't an election year and Obama had the press figuratively tonguing his asshole. This year's US flu season: www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm6 months. 56 million cases. 62000 deaths. Tell me again how COVID is any different? The CDC saying that only 6% of cases had Covid as the only cause isn't relevant. That's like saying that only 6% of murders have humans as the only cause. The bullets they shoot aren't counted. When you have Covid triggering an underlying condition and killing the victim, Covid is the cause, even if it's not the only cause. It pulled the trigger on that condition. And those people likely would have caught the flu and died from pneumonia instead of catching a cold and dying of pneumonia. People who die after catching a virus that is not fatal for >99% of those who catch it are going to be killed by something within the year - the statistics show this. Getting chemo for cancer? Stay home. Have emphysema or COPD? Stay home. Cystic Fibrosis? Stay home. Got the HIV? Stay home. You live your life how you see fit - even if that means hiding in your basement forever. But don't dictate to healthy people that they have to live a life of fear like you. More importantly - the "expert" advice to hide in your basement directly contradicts evidence that getting fresh air and sunshine is beneficial - the majority of those who were unhealthy enough to die after catching COVID were chronically deficient in Vitamin D. |
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 6, 2020 13:08:13 GMT
The CDC saying that only 6% of cases had Covid as the only cause isn't relevant. That's like saying that only 6% of murders have humans as the only cause. The bullets they shoot aren't counted. When you have Covid triggering an underlying condition and killing the victim, Covid is the cause, even if it's not the only cause. It pulled the trigger on that condition. And those people likely would have caught the flu and died from pneumonia instead of catching a cold and dying of pneumonia. People who die after catching a virus that is not fatal for >99% of those who catch it are going to be killed by something within the year - the statistics show this. Getting chemo for cancer? Stay home. Have emphysema or COPD? Stay home. Cystic Fibrosis? Stay home. Got the HIV? Stay home. You live your life how you see fit - even if that means hiding in your basement forever. But don't dictate to healthy people that they have to live a life of fear like you. More importantly - the "expert" advice to hide in your basement directly contradicts evidence that getting fresh air and sunshine is beneficial - the majority of those who were unhealthy enough to die after catching COVID were chronically deficient in Vitamin D. That's completely false. They would not have likely died from the flu or something else, otherwise flu numbers would be over 200k annually and they aren't. A few of them might have died anyway, but it's a bullshit lie to say that even a lot of them would have died anyway. It's also a bullshit Red Herring to cite the death percentage. This illness is not about what percent of those who catch it die. It's entirely about it being so fucking contagious that it dwarfs all other flus. We're seeing the high number of deaths due to the obscenely high number of people being infected. As for the moronic statement that high risk people should just stay home. You are aware that more than half the country is high risk, right? You're advocating for a permanent shut down of the economy, instead of a temporary one. |
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Post by mustrumridcully on Oct 6, 2020 15:06:18 GMT
The "bajillons dead" model are usually the absolute worst-case scenario - nothing whatsoever is done to deal with the pandemic. Of course they never are true, because just the news report about a pandemic cause people to do something, even if the government is asleep at the wheel or practically non-existing (like some war-torn 3rd world nation).
And you have to realize that with 7 billion people in the world, even a sub-1 % rate is a lot of people dead. But maybe more importantly - also a lot of people hospitalized. Many people - including people like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump (both were hospitalized) - would die without access to modern medical health care. If you get too many sick people, your death rate will rise, because there are no more ICU's available.
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 6, 2020 15:20:53 GMT
The "bajillons dead" model are usually the absolute worst-case scenario - nothing whatsoever is done to deal with the pandemic. Of course they never are true, because just the news report about a pandemic cause people to do something, even if the government is asleep at the wheel or practically non-existing (like some war-torn 3rd world nation). And you have to realize that with 7 billion people in the world, even a sub-1 % rate is a lot of people dead. But maybe more importantly - also a lot of people hospitalized. Many people - including people like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump (both were hospitalized) - would die without access to modern medical health care. If you get too many sick people, your death rate will rise, because there are no more ICU's available. What you aren't taking into account is that people naturally decide their own level of risk - people were reducing travel and avoiding crowds before governments issued edicts. All that government-issued mandates did was spread fear due to the absence of any actual data and the doom-and-gloom reporting by media who are unqualified to report on the subject. Journalists are worse than ditch-diggers who don't have an adequate education because they *think* they are educated - just enough knowledge to be completely wrong. |
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Post by cyphersmith on Oct 6, 2020 16:28:03 GMT
You're being fucking stupid here, as that's NOT what those stats actually mean. What that report is really saying is that 6% of the death certificates were filled out wrong. There is always at least two causes when COVID kills. There is what actually killed, be that pneumonia, heart attack, stroke, etc. Then there's COVID. Just because the first happened doesn't mean that COVID isn't what killed someone. And many of those things are actually being CAUSED by COVID. Heart attack? Well, COVID can cause blood clots. That can cause a heart attack, stroke, or pulmonary embolism, killing a person. COVID causes pneumonia, so seeing both on a death certificate is common. And so on. Depending on the studies you see, the IFR for COVID is between 0.3% and 1%. On the low end, that's still 3 times the flu. Yeah, that's about 1/3 of COVID. As the deaths you're discounting are really caused by COVID, not that other condition. It's like saying that a person who has COPD, for example, and gets the flu and dies didn't die from the flu. Sure, that person had a condition that made their life worse, and sure that condition was going to kill them eventually, but that condition isn't what killed them because they wouldn't have died at that time without the flu. Then you continually ignore the fact that, unlike the flu, many people NEVER fully recover from COVID. 1/3 number of cases? And? 62000/56 million = IFR of 0.11%. Even with the conceit that all 200,000 are due to COVID (even the ones who died in car crashes), 1 million-ish / 750 million = IFR of 0.13% - the same as a pandemic flu for which we ended up doing nothing. That 1 million is rough (I'm not counting to the ones place...) and 750 million is the estimate for the entire world, so there will be some variation in the numbers when scaled down to the US cases and deaths - but the IFR will still be sub-1%. This is not a big deal, but a panicky WHO spreading a doom and gloom 3% IFR back in March, along with Imperial College models of bajillions dead (from a guy whose models have always been wrong), and a MSM that doesn't even bother doing the basic investigation, let alone being anywhere close to being marginally literate in science and math, and you get what we have here. And you're still ignoring the fact that when you get this thing, you're often out for weeks, and many who survived it back in March HAVEN'T RECOVEFRED. Further, even IF the IFR is as low as you think, something that I personally doubt, since the death counts are likely to be low, the problem is still that a significant percentage of those who get it require hospitalization. That hospitalization rate doesn't actually seem to care about age, either. Oh, I'm sure that pre-existing conditions make it more likely, but it's still significantly higher than the death rate. And the death count is likely LOW, not high. Counting all the deaths of all kinds that have happened, there are about 75,000 more deaths than, statistically, we should have. And that's in the USA, where we have accurate overall death counts released. Do you seriously believe China's count? Do you seriously believe that India, even if it's reporting all of the COVID deaths it knows about, is reporting all of its COVID deaths? Same question for the rest of Asia, Africa, and Russia? Do you seriously think that South and Central America don't have the same problem that India has? You're being ignorant if you do. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 6, 2020 19:31:46 GMT
3cat is being willfully blind and deaf to facts at this point, if not putting an "alternative" fact spin on things.
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 6, 2020 19:55:32 GMT
1/3 number of cases? And? 62000/56 million = IFR of 0.11%. Even with the conceit that all 200,000 are due to COVID (even the ones who died in car crashes), 1 million-ish / 750 million = IFR of 0.13% - the same as a pandemic flu for which we ended up doing nothing. That 1 million is rough (I'm not counting to the ones place...) and 750 million is the estimate for the entire world, so there will be some variation in the numbers when scaled down to the US cases and deaths - but the IFR will still be sub-1%. This is not a big deal, but a panicky WHO spreading a doom and gloom 3% IFR back in March, along with Imperial College models of bajillions dead (from a guy whose models have always been wrong), and a MSM that doesn't even bother doing the basic investigation, let alone being anywhere close to being marginally literate in science and math, and you get what we have here. And you're still ignoring the fact that when you get this thing, you're often out for weeks, and many who survived it back in March HAVEN'T RECOVEFRED. Further, even IF the IFR is as low as you think, something that I personally doubt, since the death counts are likely to be low, the problem is still that a significant percentage of those who get it require hospitalization. That hospitalization rate doesn't actually seem to care about age, either. Oh, I'm sure that pre-existing conditions make it more likely, but it's still significantly higher than the death rate. And the death count is likely LOW, not high. Counting all the deaths of all kinds that have happened, there are about 75,000 more deaths than, statistically, we should have. And that's in the USA, where we have accurate overall death counts released. Do you seriously believe China's count? Do you seriously believe that India, even if it's reporting all of the COVID deaths it knows about, is reporting all of its COVID deaths? Same question for the rest of Asia, Africa, and Russia? Do you seriously think that South and Central America don't have the same problem that India has? You're being ignorant if you do. I would urge you to seek out Ethical Skeptic and Kyle Lamb's postings on why the excess deaths are really being used to do COVID death harvesting over the past couple of months, as well as explaining why the statistics are not to be believed at face value. I only know two people who got COVID. They were sick for two weeks with no other issues. They only know they had it because they decided to get tested for antibodies after the fact. My wife felt awful with likely symptoms of COVID - fever, dry cough, chest congestion, etc. No issues afterwards. I likely caught it from her as I had some symptoms as well - and I'm overweight with high blood pressure. We aren't wasting our time getting antibody tests. Did I mention that our COVID symptoms happened in December of 2019? |
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Post by cyphersmith on Oct 6, 2020 20:21:04 GMT
And you're still ignoring the fact that when you get this thing, you're often out for weeks, and many who survived it back in March HAVEN'T RECOVEFRED. Further, even IF the IFR is as low as you think, something that I personally doubt, since the death counts are likely to be low, the problem is still that a significant percentage of those who get it require hospitalization. That hospitalization rate doesn't actually seem to care about age, either. Oh, I'm sure that pre-existing conditions make it more likely, but it's still significantly higher than the death rate. And the death count is likely LOW, not high. Counting all the deaths of all kinds that have happened, there are about 75,000 more deaths than, statistically, we should have. And that's in the USA, where we have accurate overall death counts released. Do you seriously believe China's count? Do you seriously believe that India, even if it's reporting all of the COVID deaths it knows about, is reporting all of its COVID deaths? Same question for the rest of Asia, Africa, and Russia? Do you seriously think that South and Central America don't have the same problem that India has? You're being ignorant if you do. I would urge you to seek out Ethical Skeptic and Kyle Lamb's postings on why the excess deaths are really being used to do COVID death harvesting over the past couple of months, as well as explaining why the statistics are not to be believed at face value. I only know two people who got COVID. They were sick for two weeks with no other issues. They only know they had it because they decided to get tested for antibodies after the fact. My wife felt awful with likely symptoms of COVID - fever, dry cough, chest congestion, etc. No issues afterwards. I likely caught it from her as I had some symptoms as well - and I'm overweight with high blood pressure. We aren't wasting our time getting antibody tests. Did I mention that our COVID symptoms happened in December of 2019? Are you seriously giving anecdotal evidence? You're being a fucking idiot. You're looking at one or two sets of analyses and putting all your faith in it, without actually paying attention to what the experts are saying. And those analysts actually have no expertise in the problem. I'm not wasting my time on them. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 6, 2020 21:28:15 GMT
If you actually read anything about Covid-19, you'd know that's sometimes the case. Some people do get mild cases of it and recover with no problems. A greater percentage don't. If you want to take chances with your own health, go ahead. The rest of us, aren't.
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 6, 2020 21:54:35 GMT
I would urge you to seek out Ethical Skeptic and Kyle Lamb's postings on why the excess deaths are really being used to do COVID death harvesting over the past couple of months, as well as explaining why the statistics are not to be believed at face value. I only know two people who got COVID. They were sick for two weeks with no other issues. They only know they had it because they decided to get tested for antibodies after the fact. My wife felt awful with likely symptoms of COVID - fever, dry cough, chest congestion, etc. No issues afterwards. I likely caught it from her as I had some symptoms as well - and I'm overweight with high blood pressure. We aren't wasting our time getting antibody tests. Did I mention that our COVID symptoms happened in December of 2019? Are you seriously giving anecdotal evidence? You're being a fucking idiot. You're looking at one or two sets of analyses and putting all your faith in it, without actually paying attention to what the experts are saying. And those analysts actually have no expertise in the problem. I'm not wasting my time on them. I'm pointing out the fact that *multiple* people have anecdotal evidence that this isn't some deadly plague. Anecdotal evidence eventually has data that confirms or denies it. Reviewing the data without a MSM or "experts" filter yields a much different conclusion. Problem is that most people (at least in the US) are science-illiterate. There was a poll over the summer, the results of which indicated that the people they polled believed that 33 million people died from COVID. Governments relied upon Imperial College modeling that predicted "meelyohns" of deaths. Those deaths haven't materialized, even in areas where they didn't lockdown or mandate masks. Some facts: 1. Virii are "programmed" to replicate. Killing hosts before they can spread to others defeats that purpose. Covid mutated in Italy - to be more contagious and much less deadly. But we don't hear this message from the media. This isn't Ebola. It also isn't measles. It's a garden-variety coronavirus. Depending upon your beliefs, this could be bioengineered by the chinks or it could be a lab escape due to their incompetence. 2. The plan was to flatten number of people being hospitalized - that's been done and over with. Regardless of which data source used, hospitalizations (and deaths) are down even as cases increase. There are several factors at play: increased testing, increased false positives due to increased testing, and the aforementioned mutation. 3. You have to sort through the data to determine that many many "new" cases occurred weeks or months ago and are just now being reported. These are not new cases or more infections. 4. The WHO estimated 750 million infected worldwide. Remove the outliers (85+ year old Italians, NY/NJ/MI/CA nursing home packing, etc ) and continue looking at the same rate of "cases" vs rate of hospitalizations and deaths - this is not all that deadly for most people and the IFR will only continue to decrease. 5. Trying to prevent people from getting sick is an impossibility unless everyone is willing to continue living in authoritarian conditions. Human nature is such that there will continue to be interviewed until herd immunity or vaccine. 6. Studies have shown that 40 - 60% of the population already have some level of T-cell immunity, making herd immunity much easier to achieve at a lower % of people being exposed. 7. Masks are not all that effective when you consider that viral particles are smaller than even the interstitial spaces in the mask weave for N95s. Yeah - that t-shirt mask is gonna be effective... Especially in light of the recent indications that it can be transmitted airborne in remote situations. And, since most people are not using masks properly to begin with, they are more harmful than not at mitigating the risk of catching it. 8. Discounting rare airborne circumstances, the most likely way of catching this is from touching infected surfaces (door handles, pens in doctor offices, etc.). Just wash your hands and live your life. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Oct 6, 2020 21:55:26 GMT
If you actually read anything about Covid-19, you'd know that's sometimes the case. Some people do get mild cases of it and recover with no problems. A greater percentage don't. If you want to take chances with your own health, go ahead. The rest of us, aren't. The statistics bear out that 99+% recover with no problems. |
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 7, 2020 3:39:22 GMT
Are you seriously giving anecdotal evidence? You're being a fucking idiot. You're looking at one or two sets of analyses and putting all your faith in it, without actually paying attention to what the experts are saying. And those analysts actually have no expertise in the problem. I'm not wasting my time on them. I'm pointing out the fact that *multiple* people have anecdotal evidence that this isn't some deadly plague. Anecdotal evidence eventually has data that confirms or denies it. Reviewing the data without a MSM or "experts" filter yields a much different conclusion. Problem is that most people (at least in the US) are science-illiterate. There was a poll over the summer, the results of which indicated that the people they polled believed that 33 million people died from COVID. Governments relied upon Imperial College modeling that predicted "meelyohns" of deaths. Those deaths haven't materialized, even in areas where they didn't lockdown or mandate masks. Some facts: 1. Virii are "programmed" to replicate. Killing hosts before they can spread to others defeats that purpose. Covid mutated in Italy - to be more contagious and much less deadly. But we don't hear this message from the media. This isn't Ebola. It also isn't measles. It's a garden-variety coronavirus. Depending upon your beliefs, this could be bioengineered by the chinks or it could be a lab escape due to their incompetence. 2. The plan was to flatten number of people being hospitalized - that's been done and over with. Regardless of which data source used, hospitalizations (and deaths) are down even as cases increase. There are several factors at play: increased testing, increased false positives due to increased testing, and the aforementioned mutation. 3. You have to sort through the data to determine that many many "new" cases occurred weeks or months ago and are just now being reported. These are not new cases or more infections. 4. The WHO estimated 750 million infected worldwide. Remove the outliers (85+ year old Italians, NY/NJ/MI/CA nursing home packing, etc ) and continue looking at the same rate of "cases" vs rate of hospitalizations and deaths - this is not all that deadly for most people and the IFR will only continue to decrease. 5. Trying to prevent people from getting sick is an impossibility unless everyone is willing to continue living in authoritarian conditions. Human nature is such that there will continue to be interviewed until herd immunity or vaccine. 6. Studies have shown that 40 - 60% of the population already have some level of T-cell immunity, making herd immunity much easier to achieve at a lower % of people being exposed. 7. Masks are not all that effective when you consider that viral particles are smaller than even the interstitial spaces in the mask weave for N95s. Yeah - that t-shirt mask is gonna be effective... Especially in light of the recent indications that it can be transmitted airborne in remote situations. And, since most people are not using masks properly to begin with, they are more harmful than not at mitigating the risk of catching it. 8. Discounting rare airborne circumstances, the most likely way of catching this is from touching infected surfaces (door handles, pens in doctor offices, etc.). Just wash your hands and live your life. And multiple people have buried loved ones. Your anecdotes are meaningless, just like your 99+% number. This illness is not about what percentage die. It's about how many get it. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 7, 2020 8:17:14 GMT
3cat is an idiot. It's no use trying to educate him. Just let him go his own way. While the rest of us stay as far away as possible.
Not quite true. Covid-19 is a big deal because it is new, meaning we don't have any immunity to it. It spreads quickly, across a wide spectrum of people (old young, healthy and unhealthy alike) and it is deadly. Plus we have no real effective treatment or vaccine for it. That what it boils down to.
Before you say "but Trump", he was treated with a wide range of experimental treatments, that were not FDA approved and weren't recommended and may have adverse affects. Psychosis being the least of the afore mentioned side effects (which is kinda hard to tell normally).
He also lies like shit, so there is no way of knowing if he is truly well or not. People with Covid-19 have been known to suddenly take dive health-wise after appearing healthy for a short time.
Not only that, but the dumb fucking moron is putting his entire staff, their families and people in their orbit at risk because of his stupidity. I'd be well surprised if they all don't come down with it.
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