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Post by 3catcircus on Apr 5, 2021 16:50:00 GMT
Applying probablistic risk assessment principles makes me rational rather than a sociopath. Seriously, can you even recognize that the number of deaths in the last year (and this is before estimates that will bring the numbers up) from COVID are the third highest cause of death, and that those numbers I mentioned above would have put it at the top? And don't pull out that bullshit about the count being high. It's fucking not. There are many more than 500,000 deaths in the past year more than could be expected in a normal year. How can you seriously believe that they weren't caused by COVID. And of course, everything you say about COVID is almost always about death rate, not hospitalization rate, or the fact that COVID can permanently effect organs in your body such as your heart, lungs, kidneys, and your circulatory system. That pneumonia isn't in any way the only way that it kills. It can cause blood clots that can give you a stroke or heart attack no matter your age. Also a huge portion of people who are hospitalized, and many who were not, have symptoms from it lasting months. Some who had it a year ago are still suffering from some of the symptoms of it. Death isn't the only thing this virus does. Bad things happen to people all the time. There are so many people that are now mentally ill as a result of lockdowns and face masks. Children committing suicide; drug and alcohol abuse at unprecedented rates; people who now have agoraphobia. At no point in the past have we negatively affected the world's population due to a virus with a >99% survival rate for all but the elderly and immunocompromised as we have this past year. By the logic that "experts" are applying, we're all murderers for all of the times in the past we've gone out and interacted with other people while unknowingly asymptomaticly infected with *any* viral or bacterial infection. *That's* the point - we've never said "hey, you need to wear a mask and keep away from people even though you aren't showing signs of illness.". Have we said "you need to wear this surgical gear when you visit your hospitalized relative undergoing chemo or radiation, or in the burn ward, etc.?". Sure. Because that is a situation vastly different than average people on the street. |
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Post by Maxperson on Apr 5, 2021 17:00:49 GMT
Seriously, can you even recognize that the number of deaths in the last year (and this is before estimates that will bring the numbers up) from COVID are the third highest cause of death, and that those numbers I mentioned above would have put it at the top? And don't pull out that bullshit about the count being high. It's fucking not. There are many more than 500,000 deaths in the past year more than could be expected in a normal year. How can you seriously believe that they weren't caused by COVID. And of course, everything you say about COVID is almost always about death rate, not hospitalization rate, or the fact that COVID can permanently effect organs in your body such as your heart, lungs, kidneys, and your circulatory system. That pneumonia isn't in any way the only way that it kills. It can cause blood clots that can give you a stroke or heart attack no matter your age. Also a huge portion of people who are hospitalized, and many who were not, have symptoms from it lasting months. Some who had it a year ago are still suffering from some of the symptoms of it. Death isn't the only thing this virus does. Bad things happen to people all the time. There are so many people that are now mentally ill as a result of lockdowns and face masks. Children committing suicide; drug and alcohol abuse at unprecedented rates; people who now have agoraphobia. At no point in the past have we negatively affected the world's population due to a virus with a >99% survival rate for all but the elderly and immunocompromised as we have this past year. By the logic that "experts" are applying, we're all murderers for all of the times in the past we've gone out and interacted with other people while unknowingly asymptomaticly infected with *any* viral or bacterial infection. *That's* the point - we've never said "hey, you need to wear a mask and keep away from people even though you aren't showing signs of illness.". Have we said "you need to wear this surgical gear when you visit your hospitalized relative undergoing chemo or radiation, or in the burn ward, etc.?". Sure. Because that is a situation vastly different than average people on the street. No, it's not the point. And yes, bad things happen to people all the time. It's when you don't have any empathy for them and 500k deaths don't mean anything that you enter the realm of being a sociopath. I have yet to see a post with even an ounce of empathy from you for the greatly increased number of deaths caused by Covid. Instead you minimize(to zero) and come up with excuse after excuse and failed point after failed point. Your attempt here to equate prior levels of infection with Covid levels is a massive False Equivalence. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Apr 5, 2021 17:38:36 GMT
Bad things happen to people all the time. There are so many people that are now mentally ill as a result of lockdowns and face masks. Children committing suicide; drug and alcohol abuse at unprecedented rates; people who now have agoraphobia. At no point in the past have we negatively affected the world's population due to a virus with a >99% survival rate for all but the elderly and immunocompromised as we have this past year. By the logic that "experts" are applying, we're all murderers for all of the times in the past we've gone out and interacted with other people while unknowingly asymptomaticly infected with *any* viral or bacterial infection. *That's* the point - we've never said "hey, you need to wear a mask and keep away from people even though you aren't showing signs of illness.". Have we said "you need to wear this surgical gear when you visit your hospitalized relative undergoing chemo or radiation, or in the burn ward, etc.?". Sure. Because that is a situation vastly different than average people on the street. No, it's not the point. And yes, bad things happen to people all the time. It's when you don't have any empathy for them and 500k deaths don't mean anything that you enter the realm of being a sociopath. I have yet to see a post with even an ounce of empathy from you for the greatly increased number of deaths caused by Covid. Instead you minimize(to zero) and come up with excuse after excuse and failed point after failed point. Your attempt here to equate prior levels of infection with Covid levels is a massive False Equivalence. The false equivalence is assuming covid-19 is any different than any other betacoronavirus that can infect people. The 1889-1890 "flu pandemic" was now conjectured to have been caused by coronavirus OC43, with subsequent recurrences through 1895. It killed millions -mostly elderly and the infirm. Nowadays, OC43 does nothing more than cause cold symptoms - except for the elderly and infirm. The 1958 and 1968 flu pandemics killed up to 4 million each. 1918 killed 10x or more as many. It isn't vaccines, masks, or hiding from other people - it's improved sanitation and nutrition and the invention of antibiotics to deal with opportunistic secondary bacterial infections that has the greatest effect on mortality. The estimate for covid is 2.78M deaths of of 780M infections. That's 0.35%. I'll take my chances. It's not empathy that I lack - it's my refusal to take knee-jerk actions based upon "feelings" instead of based upon logical analysis of the available data and my utter disgust at "experts" who have thrown out thousands of years of scientific knowledge to issue edicts based upon politics. |
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Post by Maxperson on Apr 5, 2021 17:45:58 GMT
No, it's not the point. And yes, bad things happen to people all the time. It's when you don't have any empathy for them and 500k deaths don't mean anything that you enter the realm of being a sociopath. I have yet to see a post with even an ounce of empathy from you for the greatly increased number of deaths caused by Covid. Instead you minimize(to zero) and come up with excuse after excuse and failed point after failed point. Your attempt here to equate prior levels of infection with Covid levels is a massive False Equivalence. The false equivalence is assuming covid-19 is any different than any other betacoronavirus that can infect people. The 1889-1890 "flu pandemic" was now conjectured to have been caused by coronavirus OC43, with subsequent recurrences through 1895. It killed millions -mostly elderly and the infirm. Nowadays, OC43 does nothing more than cause cold symptoms - except for the elderly and infirm. The 1958 and 1968 flu pandemics killed up to 4 million each. 1918 killed 10x or more as many. It isn't vaccines, masks, or hiding from other people - it's improved sanitation and nutrition and the invention of antibiotics to deal with opportunistic secondary bacterial infections that has the greatest effect on mortality. The estimate for covid is 2.78M deaths of of 780M infections. That's 0.35%. I'll take my chances. It's not empathy that I lack - it's my refusal to take knee-jerk actions based upon "feelings" instead of based upon logical analysis of the available data and my utter disgust at "experts" who have thrown out thousands of years of scientific knowledge to issue edicts based upon politics. So the fuck what. Just because in the past something that killed millions no longer does is no reason whatsoever not to minimize current Covids. It takes some serious dumbfuckery to think somethin like that. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Apr 6, 2021 0:34:12 GMT
The false equivalence is assuming covid-19 is any different than any other betacoronavirus that can infect people. The 1889-1890 "flu pandemic" was now conjectured to have been caused by coronavirus OC43, with subsequent recurrences through 1895. It killed millions -mostly elderly and the infirm. Nowadays, OC43 does nothing more than cause cold symptoms - except for the elderly and infirm. The 1958 and 1968 flu pandemics killed up to 4 million each. 1918 killed 10x or more as many. It isn't vaccines, masks, or hiding from other people - it's improved sanitation and nutrition and the invention of antibiotics to deal with opportunistic secondary bacterial infections that has the greatest effect on mortality. The estimate for covid is 2.78M deaths of of 780M infections. That's 0.35%. I'll take my chances. It's not empathy that I lack - it's my refusal to take knee-jerk actions based upon "feelings" instead of based upon logical analysis of the available data and my utter disgust at "experts" who have thrown out thousands of years of scientific knowledge to issue edicts based upon politics. So the fuck what. Just because in the past something that killed millions no longer does is no reason whatsoever not to minimize current Covids. It takes some serious dumbfuckery to think somethin like that. How dumb are you to not understand that, like every other virus that doesn't have a huge CFR or IFR (e.g. Ebola), it will ultimately become just another cause of a common cold or get eradicated through viral competition. The H1N1 flu strain (the type causing the 1918 pandemic) resulted in a strain circulating between 1946 and 1957 that later resulted in a 1977 outbreak that killed 700,000 or so. It then came back in 2009 where it is speculated that adenovirus or rhinovirus outcompeted it. It's now part and parcel of seasonal flu. You also are ignoring the fact that experts are completely ignoring science that we know works. For example, covid-19 binds to ACE2 as a means of getting a foothold in human cells. There are a bunch of emergency trials on new drugs to prevent that binding from occurring. However, a study on use of old drugs approved in 1930 by the FDA shows them to be better at it. Why aren't we using these old drugs in severe cases involving ARDS? www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07391102.2020.1830854It's not that lots of people have died - it's that governments are continuing with stupidity rather than known science such as the above and other area I've pointed out - this continued idiocy will do nothing but get more people killed in the long run. So - I no longer give a damn about anyone else so long as this collective stupidity in following lockdowns and masks without end continues. |
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Post by Maxperson on Apr 6, 2021 4:56:51 GMT
So the fuck what. Just because in the past something that killed millions no longer does is no reason whatsoever not to minimize current Covids. It takes some serious dumbfuckery to think somethin like that. How dumb are you to not understand that, like every other virus that doesn't have a huge CFR or IFR (e.g. Ebola), it will ultimately become just another cause of a common cold or get eradicated through viral competition. The H1N1 flu strain (the type causing the 1918 pandemic) resulted in a strain circulating between 1946 and 1957 that later resulted in a 1977 outbreak that killed 700,000 or so. It then came back in 2009 where it is speculated that adenovirus or rhinovirus outcompeted it. It's now part and parcel of seasonal flu. You also are ignoring the fact that experts are completely ignoring science that we know works. For example, covid-19 binds to ACE2 as a means of getting a foothold in human cells. There are a bunch of emergency trials on new drugs to prevent that binding from occurring. However, a study on use of old drugs approved in 1930 by the FDA shows them to be better at it. Why aren't we using these old drugs in severe cases involving ARDS? www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/07391102.2020.1830854It's not that lots of people have died - it's that governments are continuing with stupidity rather than known science such as the above and other area I've pointed out - this continued idiocy will do nothing but get more people killed in the long run. So - I no longer give a damn about anyone else so long as this collective stupidity in following lockdowns and masks without end continues. I under it just fine. You're the fucking dumbass who doesn't understand that we can let millions die and it will eventually become another common cold OR we can save millions and it will eventually become another common cold. It takes a sociopath not to give a shit about those lives and just want them dead the way that you do. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Apr 6, 2021 22:46:53 GMT
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Post by kirinke on Apr 6, 2021 23:36:39 GMT
Daily mail bias and reliability.
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Post by Maxperson on Apr 7, 2021 1:05:20 GMT
You aren't actually proving anything. Red Herrings are a fallacy for a reason. When you have something valid to say... |
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Post by kirinke on Apr 7, 2021 12:13:16 GMT
He's trying to say Covid-19 is like the common cold now. The article doesn't say that at all. It's all a hypothetical in the future type thing. But then again, maybe he really didn't read it.
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Post by 3catcircus on Apr 7, 2021 18:44:37 GMT
He's trying to say Covid-19 is like the common cold now. The article doesn't say that at all. It's all a hypothetical in the future type thing. But then again, maybe he really didn't read it. No, stupid. I've said that covid will become a common cold - and the study linked in that article, separately from other experts also saying it, is evidence of me being, yet again, correct. Reading is fundamental... |
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Post by Maxperson on Apr 7, 2021 19:01:18 GMT
He's trying to say Covid-19 is like the common cold now. The article doesn't say that at all. It's all a hypothetical in the future type thing. But then again, maybe he really didn't read it. No, stupid. I've said that covid will become a common cold - and the study linked in that article, separately from other experts also saying it, is evidence of me being, yet again, correct. Reading is fundamental... Yep, but the articles you mention are utterly irrelevant. It's NOT the common cold yet. It's Covid 19, which has killed 500k people and would have killed double or more if we hadn't acted as we did, and would have killed even less had half the county not been fools like you and continued to meet maskless and spread the illness. Just because it will eventually become mostly harmless, is not even remotely a reason not to treat is seriously now or a reason to act like a sociopath and just not care that 500k people have died from it. |
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Post by kirinke on Apr 7, 2021 20:10:51 GMT
It's not the common cold now. It's a deadly disease. Treat it as such.
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Post by 3catcircus on Apr 7, 2021 21:21:24 GMT
No, stupid. I've said that covid will become a common cold - and the study linked in that article, separately from other experts also saying it, is evidence of me being, yet again, correct. Reading is fundamental... Yep, but the articles you mention are utterly irrelevant. It's NOT the common cold yet. It's Covid 19, which has killed 500k people and would have killed double or more if we hadn't acted as we did, and would have killed even less had half the county not been fools like you and continued to meet maskless and spread the illness. Just because it will eventually become mostly harmless, is not even remotely a reason not to treat is seriously now or a reason to act like a sociopath and just not care that 500k people have died from it. We have ZERO idea of how many people actually caught COVID. Actual epidemiologists with field experience (something Fauci is not) have estimated that anywhere between 4x and 20x actually got it as compared to the number recorded - add that's before you toss all the false positives (due to recording a noncovid death as covid, due to ridiculously high PCR Ct, due to testing the asymptomatic, etc.) Fact of the matter is that covid CFR and IFR have been recognized as being completely wrong for quite some time *because* no one knows the true number and the actual evidence bears this out despite breathless reporting by a media that needs there to be an ongoing crisis. Best estimates from people who actually know epidemiology because they've experienced it in the field are that covid is currently no more deadly than epidemic flu seasons (and nowhere near as deadly as pandemic flu). It's math and the human immune system - two topics you appear to know very little about. |
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Post by Maxperson on Apr 7, 2021 23:04:40 GMT
Yep, but the articles you mention are utterly irrelevant. It's NOT the common cold yet. It's Covid 19, which has killed 500k people and would have killed double or more if we hadn't acted as we did, and would have killed even less had half the county not been fools like you and continued to meet maskless and spread the illness. Just because it will eventually become mostly harmless, is not even remotely a reason not to treat is seriously now or a reason to act like a sociopath and just not care that 500k people have died from it. We have ZERO idea of how many people actually caught COVID. Actual epidemiologists with field experience (something Fauci is not) have estimated that anywhere between 4x and 20x actually got it as compared to the number recorded - add that's before you toss all the false positives (due to recording a noncovid death as covid, due to ridiculously high PCR Ct, due to testing the asymptomatic, etc.) Fact of the matter is that covid CFR and IFR have been recognized as being completely wrong for quite some time *because* no one knows the true number and the actual evidence bears this out despite breathless reporting by a media that needs there to be an ongoing crisis. Best estimates from people who actually know epidemiology because they've experienced it in the field are that covid is currently no more deadly than epidemic flu seasons (and nowhere near as deadly as pandemic flu). It's math and the human immune system - two topics you appear to know very little about. Blah blah blah, I enjoy feasting on Red Herrings, blah. It doesn't matter how many caught it. It's not going to turn into a cold next year, even if all of us catch it. It takes time to be reduced to a cold and right now all that matters are the 500k+ who died from it, and what we can do to keep it from being higher. |
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