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Post by Devoid on Aug 18, 2021 15:55:34 GMT
So the vaccine is working out swell...love those numbers in Israel and other heavily vaxxed areas. Now Moderna and Pfizer are wanting to experiment with the experimental rape-jabs on babies. Another superb idea by the "experts". Just to clarity, are you equivocating sexual penetration with injections, is this correct? Or perhaps are you referring to the lack of consent from (young) minors? |
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Post by cyphersmith on Aug 18, 2021 15:57:47 GMT
So the vaccine is working out swell...love those numbers in Israel and other heavily vaxxed areas. Now Moderna and Pfizer are wanting to experiment with the experimental rape-jabs on babies. Another superb idea by the "experts". Seriously? Experimental rape-jabs? That's so fucking ridiculous it's funny. We vaccinate babies regularly. It's an obvious outgrowth of testing the vaccine on children. Further, experimental is a fucking stupid descriptor of a vaccine that will be fully approved within the month for adults. And I expect teens not long after that. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 18, 2021 22:05:16 GMT
So the vaccine is working out swell...love those numbers in Israel and other heavily vaxxed areas. Now Moderna and Pfizer are wanting to experiment with the experimental rape-jabs on babies. Another superb idea by the "experts". Seriously? Experimental rape-jabs? That's so fucking ridiculous it's funny. We vaccinate babies regularly. It's an obvious outgrowth of testing the vaccine on children. Further, experimental is a fucking stupid descriptor of a vaccine that will be fully approved within the month for adults. And I expect teens not long after that. We vaccinate babies - with vaccines that have gone through *years* of testing before receiving the ok to use. We have a decade of prior vaccine trials for SARS and other coronaviruses that show them to be dangerous. This vaccine is a desperate rush job. While I'm fine with rushing in the face of a crisis, we aren't in a crisis anymore. |
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Post by cyphersmith on Aug 18, 2021 22:41:42 GMT
Seriously? Experimental rape-jabs? That's so fucking ridiculous it's funny. We vaccinate babies regularly. It's an obvious outgrowth of testing the vaccine on children. Further, experimental is a fucking stupid descriptor of a vaccine that will be fully approved within the month for adults. And I expect teens not long after that. We vaccinate babies - with vaccines that have gone through *years* of testing before receiving the ok to use. We have a decade of prior vaccine trials for SARS and other coronaviruses that show them to be dangerous. This vaccine is a desperate rush job. While I'm fine with rushing in the face of a crisis, we aren't in a crisis anymore. Do you actually understand why most vaccines take so long to test? It's because they're tested in environments that are NOT a pandemic. Because it IS a pandemic, getting volunteers for the all three phases of the trials went quickly. And they passed with flying colors. The only thing rushed was the bureaucratic bullshit. And it has passed testing with teens. Vaccination of children and babies is the next step. For that matter, we ARE still in a crisis. The USA is one of a very FEW countries where vaccination is very high. It is still fucking up distribution. And will until the vaccines get deeper penetration in the world it will continue to be. Which means that we will continue to have new variants. Further, something you have said numerous times is turning out to be flat out wrong. It isn't becoming less deadly as it mutates. It is keeping its deadliness while getting more infectious. The vaccine itself isn't a "desperate rush job" either. Scientists have been working towards mRNA vaccines since 2006. A SARS vaccine has been in the works since 2003. The COVID vaccine is the result of these two branches of work. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 19, 2021 11:32:27 GMT
We vaccinate babies - with vaccines that have gone through *years* of testing before receiving the ok to use. We have a decade of prior vaccine trials for SARS and other coronaviruses that show them to be dangerous. This vaccine is a desperate rush job. While I'm fine with rushing in the face of a crisis, we aren't in a crisis anymore. Do you actually understand why most vaccines take so long to test? It's because they're tested in environments that are NOT a pandemic. Because it IS a pandemic, getting volunteers for the all three phases of the trials went quickly. And they passed with flying colors. The only thing rushed was the bureaucratic bullshit. And it has passed testing with teens. Vaccination of children and babies is the next step. For that matter, we ARE still in a crisis. The USA is one of a very FEW countries where vaccination is very high. It is still fucking up distribution. And will until the vaccines get deeper penetration in the world it will continue to be. Which means that we will continue to have new variants. Further, something you have said numerous times is turning out to be flat out wrong. It isn't becoming less deadly as it mutates. It is keeping its deadliness while getting more infectious. The vaccine itself isn't a "desperate rush job" either. Scientists have been working towards mRNA vaccines since 2006. A SARS vaccine has been in the works since 2003. The COVID vaccine is the result of these two branches of work. It most certainly was a rush job - *all* the prior work on coronavirus vaccines, including SARS, resulted in cautions against proceeding to human trials. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421"Conclusions These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated." But it turns out you don't need to be vaccinated if you've already gotten covid and recovered anyway: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34216472/"Conclusion: Natural infection resulting in detectable anti-spike antibodies and two vaccine doses both provide robust protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, including against the B.1.1.7 variant." |
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Post by Devoid on Aug 19, 2021 12:23:27 GMT
Do you actually understand why most vaccines take so long to test? It's because they're tested in environments that are NOT a pandemic. Because it IS a pandemic, getting volunteers for the all three phases of the trials went quickly. And they passed with flying colors. The only thing rushed was the bureaucratic bullshit. And it has passed testing with teens. Vaccination of children and babies is the next step. For that matter, we ARE still in a crisis. The USA is one of a very FEW countries where vaccination is very high. It is still fucking up distribution. And will until the vaccines get deeper penetration in the world it will continue to be. Which means that we will continue to have new variants. Further, something you have said numerous times is turning out to be flat out wrong. It isn't becoming less deadly as it mutates. It is keeping its deadliness while getting more infectious. The vaccine itself isn't a "desperate rush job" either. Scientists have been working towards mRNA vaccines since 2006. A SARS vaccine has been in the works since 2003. The COVID vaccine is the result of these two branches of work. It most certainly was a rush job - *all* the prior work on coronavirus vaccines, including SARS, resulted in cautions against proceeding to human trials. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421"Conclusions These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated." But it turns out you don't need to be vaccinated if you've already gotten covid and recovered anyway: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34216472/"Conclusion: Natural infection resulting in detectable anti-spike antibodies and two vaccine doses both provide robust protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, including against the B.1.1.7 variant." I wonder if there has been a more recent article about the prior work on coronavirus vaccines since 2012 (when this article was published). I am curious what more recent studies have discovered.
The second article was published in July and mentions protection from the original SARS-CoV-2 strain and the B.1.1.7 variant (aka alpha). There is no mention of the other variants, particularly the delta variant that is currently the dominant variant. Originally the variants were referenced by their Pango lineage, now the CDC and the rest seem to reference the WHO label[1]. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 19, 2021 15:37:31 GMT
It most certainly was a rush job - *all* the prior work on coronavirus vaccines, including SARS, resulted in cautions against proceeding to human trials. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421"Conclusions These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated." But it turns out you don't need to be vaccinated if you've already gotten covid and recovered anyway: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34216472/"Conclusion: Natural infection resulting in detectable anti-spike antibodies and two vaccine doses both provide robust protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, including against the B.1.1.7 variant." I wonder if there has been a more recent article about the prior work on coronavirus vaccines since 2012 (when this article was published). I am curious what more recent studies have discovered.
The second article was published in July and mentions protection from the original SARS-CoV-2 strain and the B.1.1.7 variant (aka alpha). There is no mention of the other variants, particularly the delta variant that is currently the dominant variant. Originally the variants were referenced by their Pango lineage, now the CDC and the rest seem to reference the WHO label[1]. Assuming that any variant didn't fundamentally mutate how the spike proteins interact, then it's a strong likelihood that vaccines that work by generating spike proteins will still be effective. There is confusion over efficacy because *all* antibodies typically reduce to a plateau within a few months of an initial infection or vaccination. The talk of boosters isn't over delta or any other variant, it's a poorly-communicated fact that antibody levels aren't the same as they were at initial infection or vaccination. Being infected is *better* than vaccination in most cases, because you are exposed to *all* of the viral proteins, so you have a better range of potential antibody responses than from a vaccine acting in a single protein that could change with viral mutation. |
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Post by cyphersmith on Aug 19, 2021 16:14:59 GMT
Do you actually understand why most vaccines take so long to test? It's because they're tested in environments that are NOT a pandemic. Because it IS a pandemic, getting volunteers for the all three phases of the trials went quickly. And they passed with flying colors. The only thing rushed was the bureaucratic bullshit. And it has passed testing with teens. Vaccination of children and babies is the next step. For that matter, we ARE still in a crisis. The USA is one of a very FEW countries where vaccination is very high. It is still fucking up distribution. And will until the vaccines get deeper penetration in the world it will continue to be. Which means that we will continue to have new variants. Further, something you have said numerous times is turning out to be flat out wrong. It isn't becoming less deadly as it mutates. It is keeping its deadliness while getting more infectious. The vaccine itself isn't a "desperate rush job" either. Scientists have been working towards mRNA vaccines since 2006. A SARS vaccine has been in the works since 2003. The COVID vaccine is the result of these two branches of work. It most certainly was a rush job - *all* the prior work on coronavirus vaccines, including SARS, resulted in cautions against proceeding to human trials. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421"Conclusions These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated." But it turns out you don't need to be vaccinated if you've already gotten covid and recovered anyway: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34216472/"Conclusion: Natural infection resulting in detectable anti-spike antibodies and two vaccine doses both provide robust protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, including against the B.1.1.7 variant." That's NINE years old. How is that possibly valid for now? |
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 19, 2021 20:16:08 GMT
It most certainly was a rush job - *all* the prior work on coronavirus vaccines, including SARS, resulted in cautions against proceeding to human trials. journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0035421"Conclusions These SARS-CoV vaccines all induced antibody and protection against infection with SARS-CoV. However, challenge of mice given any of the vaccines led to occurrence of Th2-type immunopathology suggesting hypersensitivity to SARS-CoV components was induced. Caution in proceeding to application of a SARS-CoV vaccine in humans is indicated." But it turns out you don't need to be vaccinated if you've already gotten covid and recovered anyway: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34216472/"Conclusion: Natural infection resulting in detectable anti-spike antibodies and two vaccine doses both provide robust protection against SARS-CoV-2 infection, including against the B.1.1.7 variant." That's NINE years old. How is that possibly valid for now? Because there have been no subsequent studies to try and develop a SARS vaccine. 1. All of the studies trying to develop SARS vaccines resulted in life-threatening side effects in animals, hence the caution and resultant *not* proceeding to human trials. 2. SARS-COV2 vaccinations were based upon the prior SARS vaccine efforts. mRNA is the method, not the vaccine - it tells your body to create spike proteins that your immune system reacts to. The JnJ AZ and Sputnik ones use a modified different virus that expresses the COVID spike proteins. The vaccine (that is, the redundant antibody response) is still based upon the original SARS vaccine research. 3. All of the SARS-COV2 vaccines that have been administered skipped animal trials. So - they applied vaccine research that killed or injured animals badly enough that it never went to human trials... to build new vaccines that skipped animal trials. *That's* a problem in the long term now that we are no longer in an emergency situation because it opens the door to any number of future "it's an emergency, just do it" bad ideas from government and industry. We've already gone through the Agent Orange lawsuits and we're going through Gulf War Syndrome lawsuits, as well as OIF/OEF burnpit lawsuits because of "act now, figure it out later." There are untold numbers of class actions because of surgical and pharmaceutical malpractice (I'm sure you've seen all of the surgical mesh and Zantac class action commercials). We can't do that here because all of the pharma contracts indemnify them on the covid vaccine. |
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Post by cyphersmith on Aug 20, 2021 0:05:25 GMT
That's NINE years old. How is that possibly valid for now? Because there have been no subsequent studies to try and develop a SARS vaccine. 1. All of the studies trying to develop SARS vaccines resulted in life-threatening side effects in animals, hence the caution and resultant *not* proceeding to human trials. 2. SARS-COV2 vaccinations were based upon the prior SARS vaccine efforts. mRNA is the method, not the vaccine - it tells your body to create spike proteins that your immune system reacts to. The JnJ AZ and Sputnik ones use a modified different virus that expresses the COVID spike proteins. The vaccine (that is, the redundant antibody response) is still based upon the original SARS vaccine research. 3. All of the SARS-COV2 vaccines that have been administered skipped animal trials. So - they applied vaccine research that killed or injured animals badly enough that it never went to human trials... to build new vaccines that skipped animal trials. *That's* a problem in the long term now that we are no longer in an emergency situation because it opens the door to any number of future "it's an emergency, just do it" bad ideas from government and industry. We've already gone through the Agent Orange lawsuits and we're going through Gulf War Syndrome lawsuits, as well as OIF/OEF burnpit lawsuits because of "act now, figure it out later." There are untold numbers of class actions because of surgical and pharmaceutical malpractice (I'm sure you've seen all of the surgical mesh and Zantac class action commercials). We can't do that here because all of the pharma contracts indemnify them on the covid vaccine. Except that's pure bullshit. The COVID vaccine WAS tested on animals. And DIDN'T have those side effects. Sure, it was done in parallel with the Phase 1 trials, but they were still done. All of the testing that is usually done for a vaccine WAS done for the COVID vaccines (at least the ones in the US and EU). And you still don't get that we are STILL IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. Shit's fucked up, and that's not going to significantly change for at least a year. Beyond that, it wasn't just based on the SARS vaccine trials. It was ALSO based on MERS research, which only halted because of funds drying up. You're ALSO ignoring the fact that when we put a fuckton of money and effort behind achieving a goal with many different vectors to get there (and there are dozens of attempts that failed) things often happen really fast. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 21, 2021 21:36:15 GMT
Because there have been no subsequent studies to try and develop a SARS vaccine. 1. All of the studies trying to develop SARS vaccines resulted in life-threatening side effects in animals, hence the caution and resultant *not* proceeding to human trials. 2. SARS-COV2 vaccinations were based upon the prior SARS vaccine efforts. mRNA is the method, not the vaccine - it tells your body to create spike proteins that your immune system reacts to. The JnJ AZ and Sputnik ones use a modified different virus that expresses the COVID spike proteins. The vaccine (that is, the redundant antibody response) is still based upon the original SARS vaccine research. 3. All of the SARS-COV2 vaccines that have been administered skipped animal trials. So - they applied vaccine research that killed or injured animals badly enough that it never went to human trials... to build new vaccines that skipped animal trials. *That's* a problem in the long term now that we are no longer in an emergency situation because it opens the door to any number of future "it's an emergency, just do it" bad ideas from government and industry. We've already gone through the Agent Orange lawsuits and we're going through Gulf War Syndrome lawsuits, as well as OIF/OEF burnpit lawsuits because of "act now, figure it out later." There are untold numbers of class actions because of surgical and pharmaceutical malpractice (I'm sure you've seen all of the surgical mesh and Zantac class action commercials). We can't do that here because all of the pharma contracts indemnify them on the covid vaccine. Except that's pure bullshit. The COVID vaccine WAS tested on animals. And DIDN'T have those side effects. Sure, it was done in parallel with the Phase 1 trials, but they were still done. All of the testing that is usually done for a vaccine WAS done for the COVID vaccines (at least the ones in the US and EU). And you still don't get that we are STILL IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION. Shit's fucked up, and that's not going to significantly change for at least a year. Beyond that, it wasn't just based on the SARS vaccine trials. It was ALSO based on MERS research, which only halted because of funds drying up. You're ALSO ignoring the fact that when we put a fuckton of money and effort behind achieving a goal with many different vectors to get there (and there are dozens of attempts that failed) things often happen really fast. I think I might not have been clear (mea culpa) - we did the animal testing in parallel, as you correctly state - my point was that we did not wait until completing those trials before starting testing them on people, so "skipping over" was probably not the most apropos choice of phrase. That having been said, I beg to differ - we are in an emergency now of our own making rather than an actual emergency. Despite the media attempting to paint it as a crisis, the vast majority of people were never in danger of "got the covid, I guess I need to get on a vent and then die." Now, that 99+% of people who recover with no problems is even closer to 100%. All of the data is showing that hospitalization and death is far less even with more transmittable variants. You'll note that the media and governments continue to focus on case counts - ignoring the fact that case counts only ever mattered as a means of determining where the outbreaks are. From a public policy perspective, who cares how many get a virus when almost every one of them recovers with no problems. |
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 21, 2021 21:37:32 GMT
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Post by kirinke on Aug 21, 2021 22:49:53 GMT
You've not been correct yet and the daily mail isn't news. It's a tabloid.
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Post by 3catcircus on Aug 21, 2021 23:18:42 GMT
You've not been correct yet and the daily mail isn't news. It's a tabloid. Instead of dismissing information that shatters your incorrect world-view, perhaps expand your mind. That a media outlet you don't like reports on a University of Waterloo study doesn't invalidate the study. |
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Post by kirinke on Aug 22, 2021 12:00:45 GMT
You also say that every time you're wrong as well and yes, I've read the article. It's not saying what you think it's saying. Here's another one that spells out the different kinds of masks you can get and their effectiveness.
The reason why the blue surgical masks aren't as effective as the others is the fact that people don't wear them properly and are ill-fitting. You have to find a mask that fits well, is snug against the mouth and nostrils. You also have to be careful about the kind of fabric that is used with cloth masks.
You've basically stated time and again that masks don't work. They do. It's been proven they work. You just have to choose the ones that fit your particular face and wear it properly.
Also, get the vaccine, social distance and wash your hands.
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