ulrik
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ulrik on Aug 8, 2019 14:26:14 GMT
The MSM does not have a "liberal" or "left-wing" bias. Yeah, it actually does. The problem here is... the sources you'll use to check the bias of the MSM... they are also left leaning. For example Snopes has gone so far to up it's own ass it has started labeling a parody/comedy website as 'fake news' to get it censored from Facebook and reduced in Google rankings. Are you talking about Babylon Bee? That's fake news because there are enough boomers who are so fucking stupid that they take it as real news. Don't blame Snopes for that. Anyway, the El Paso terrorist is clear example of right wing terror that was directly inspired by your glorious president. Lots of people are getting radicalized online, and nobody is lifting a finger to stop it. And this has nothing to do with principles or laws - the same type of online radicalization was happening to young muslims just a few years ago, but it has effectively been hunted down and minimized, by governments and tech giants acting in concert. If you have a problem with that, you're years too late. It has already happened. Now it's time to make it happen for nazis and white supremacists as well.
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slade
New Member
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Post by slade on Aug 8, 2019 15:01:53 GMT
Now it's time to make it happen for nazis and white supremacists as well. I suspect white supremacists will object. Like EE.
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Post by kirinke on Aug 8, 2019 20:15:11 GMT
Hey, the racist fuckers brought it on themselves.
Not sorry.
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Post by evileeyore on Aug 9, 2019 2:07:22 GMT
By the way, how do you visualize the political spectrum? freedom <----> authoritarian and liberal <----> conservative. Because I know plenty of Progressives that are racist and regressive, and more than enough Libertarians that are perfectly happy with a corporate boot eternal stomping on the neck of the downtrodden, for me to ever use those terms in some scaling system. Are you talking about Babylon Bee? That's fake news because there are enough boomers who are so fucking stupid that they take it as real news. So... comedy becomes "fake news" and is suppression worthy when idiots believe it. Thanks comrade! Don't be upset when this too turns to bite you in the ass...
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ulrik
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ulrik on Aug 9, 2019 10:30:31 GMT
By the way, how do you visualize the political spectrum? freedom <----> authoritarian and liberal <----> conservative. Because I know plenty of Progressives that are racist and regressive, and more than enough Libertarians that are perfectly happy with a corporate boot eternal stomping on the neck of the downtrodden, for me to ever use those terms in some scaling system. Here you're correct - too many people have to political compass of "more for me" and "I got mine, fuck you", which doesn't fit into any coherent political philosophy. But it's still a fundamental view for some people. There are libertarians who have consistent principles, but when some libertarians manage to contort their views into "taxation bad, police good" and "libertarianism is anti-immigration, because the inhabitants collectively own the nation" they're channeling their inner "I got mine, fuck you" more than a coherent philosophy.
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Post by Ovinomancer on Aug 9, 2019 12:02:32 GMT
freedom <----> authoritarian and liberal <----> conservative. Because I know plenty of Progressives that are racist and regressive, and more than enough Libertarians that are perfectly happy with a corporate boot eternal stomping on the neck of the downtrodden, for me to ever use those terms in some scaling system. Here you're correct - too many people have to political compass of "more for me" and "I got mine, fuck you", which doesn't fit into any coherent political philosophy. But it's still a fundamental view for some people. There are libertarians who have consistent principles, but when some libertarians manage to contort their views into "taxation bad, police good" and "libertarianism is anti-immigration, because the inhabitants collectively own the nation" they're channeling their inner "I got mine, fuck you" more than a coherent philosophy. How many immigrants have you taken into your house? This is the rub -- libertarian open borders policies only make sense if there's zero welfare state. IE, you have to have the minarchist state acheived at the same time. Otherwise, open borders is just increasing the burden of the confiscatory state. So, no, you can't disentangle individual parts of the libertarian platform and retain coherency. So long as the welfare state exists, it is rational for a libertarian to not support open borders while retaining it as an ideal. For me, libertarianism fails when it chooses to ignore corporate action under the myth of individualism. Ignoring the distorting power and ability to thwart rational self interest that corporate entities (like nations, corporations, religions, and cultures) exert in favor of pursuing individualism-based policies is self-defeating. Libertarianism is both the most coherent political theory and the least likely to survive contact with people. It ignores that it itself requires a coporate identity -- one where everyone holds to the same set of ideals. Libertarianism fails in the face of those willing to exploit the system. Hence my agreement with bunny's comment about libertarians kowtiwing to corporations as, somehow, better corporate entities than nation states.
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ulrik
New Member
Posts: 21
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Post by ulrik on Aug 9, 2019 21:38:36 GMT
Libertarians basically define power as power exercised by the state, and any other power as 'freedom'. They're blind to how one person's or corporate entities actions can affect another person's freedom. Libertarianism is foggy on the entire concept of a society, which is why it's useless for any kind of political system.
But that's not my point, really. My point is that, for many self-described "libertarians" they don't even hold to that vague philosophy, but is instead something they think will allow them to do whatever they want and nobody else can do anything to affect them, which isn't possible unless you have a heavy class-based system and you're in the upper class. Hell, not even then.
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Post by Kzach on Aug 15, 2019 0:17:16 GMT
Otherwise, open borders is just increasing the burden of the confiscatory state. Awesome. You just demonstrated you, and your fellow Republicans, think immigrants are a burden to society. After that you wonder why people call you and your party racist. It is this kind of opinion uttered in the public discourse that keeps racism and racial stereotypes alive. Fucking moron.
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Post by Ovinomancer on Aug 15, 2019 1:52:04 GMT
Libertarians basically define power as power exercised by the state, and any other power as 'freedom'. They're blind to how one person's or corporate entities actions can affect another person's freedom. Libertarianism is foggy on the entire concept of a society, which is why it's useless for any kind of political system. No, that's not how libertarians define power. This is absolute bullshit and a very shallow understanding of libertarianism. There's plenty of good reasons to dislike libertarianism without making shit up. Libertarianism is rooted in a common society that believes in classical liberal beliefs. Absent this, what you posit here is what happens if you naively adopt libertarian ideas without such a common society -- as I note above. It's actually the libertarians that lean left that are more likely to fail to insist on such a common society before inacting libertarian ideals that end up with corporate structures running roughshod over normal citizens. That are the anarchists. The minarchists and the more sane libertarians understand the value of government as a bulwark against other corporate takeovers and to maintain the common society. Oh, for sure, but this is true of any political structure. Do you think Democrats actually practice the party planks? Republicans? Much less progressives or conservatives. Inconsistency is the hallmark of humanity.
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Post by Ovinomancer on Aug 15, 2019 1:55:15 GMT
Otherwise, open borders is just increasing the burden of the confiscatory state. Awesome. You just demonstrated you, and your fellow Republicans, think immigrants are a burden to society. After that you wonder why people call you and your party racist. It is this kind of opinion uttered in the public discourse that keeps racism and racial stereotypes alive. Fucking moron. Yes, the moron is the one that took a quote out of context and failed to understand it. I'll be clear -- it's you. And, which party do I belong to? I'll give you a hint -- I didn't vote for Trump, and I voted for 2 Democrats in the last election, one local, one national. So, what's my party, again? Open borders is a bad policy. I like immigration, but not uncontrolled immigration. And, don't you come from a country where immigration is very tightly controlled and happens to be surrounded by an ocean do you don't even have to worry about it? Check your privilege.
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