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Post by Kzach on Oct 28, 2019 14:41:59 GMT
Trump is corrupt, incompetent and abuses the powers and privileges of his office for his personal gain (look up Ukraine). I have. There are no facts that show Ukraine to be corrupt or for personal gain. Get better information sources. There are several testimonies from ambassadors named by Trump. They testify to a quid pro quo. This is just the start of the investigation. Their will be more stuff that will come up. Don't worry. None if it will convince you. Convictions based only on witnesses testimony and the accused not testifying happens all the time. Now you're just inventing criterias. We've been over this already. Congress decide and they can impeach for sneezing the wrong way if they want. You're not having this conversation in good faith or you're dumb or both. Enjoy the dumbster fire, moron.
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Post by mustrumridcully on Oct 28, 2019 15:33:15 GMT
I have. There are no facts that show Ukraine to be corrupt or for personal gain. We have some whistle blowers who make that claim, but provide no facts other than "He asked Ukraine to look into the potential Biden corruption," which in and of itself is not a corrupt or personal thing to do. We have to know the motive, which has not been factually given anywhere. Every last person claiming "corruption" and "personal gain" is simply giving his assumption of what the President did. Until we have the reason from Trump's mouth, a distinct possibility the way he talks on impulse, or we have a verbatim transcript showing his reason for asking Ukraine to investigate the potential Biden corruption, we can only make assumptions. As I said above, I think it's probably correct that he did it for personal gain. Probably, though, is also not an offence that warrants impeachment. Don't we already have a lot more than just one whistle blower's statement. People have already been interviewed in this matter, and the interviews seem to paint a picture where many people believed that he was abusing his power. We don't need an expclicit statement from Trump to say: "I want to be reelected, if the Ukraine deson't work to find dirt on my political rvial Biden, I will not give them any of the military support that we were talking about." It is possible to get the same result by finding people that think this is what he was trying to do (with convincing arguments to do so), and not enough people (with convincing arguments to do so) to suggest otherwise.
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Post by cyphersmith on Oct 28, 2019 16:55:46 GMT
Incompetence is not a fact that warrants impeachment. We've been over this already. Congress decide and they can impeach for sneezing the wrong way if they want. You're not having this conversation in good faith or you're dumb or both. They don't need to impeach for that, though they certainly can. By its nature, impeachment is political in nature. Incompetence could also be used to remove the President through the 25th Amendment. Though the way that Trump has set up his cabinet that's not going to happen without the House and Senate creating a group to decide on this. Although if the President fights it, it's actually harder to remove the President with the 25th Amendment since it requires a 2/3 majority of both the House and Senate to remove the President in this scenario.
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Post by evileeyore on Oct 28, 2019 17:04:41 GMT
People have already been interviewed in this matter, and the interviews seem to paint a picture where many people believed that he was abusing his power. Come on Archchancellor, you know better than this, belief is not evidence. This one is going to go the way of Clinton's impeachment. Big show, zero gains for those trying to use I to oust him.
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Post by Kzach on Oct 28, 2019 17:54:39 GMT
This one is going to go the way of Clinton's impeachment. Big show, zero gains for those trying to use I to oust him. You didn't see polls with a majority of people for Clinton's impeachment back in the day.
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 29, 2019 2:28:11 GMT
I have. There are no facts that show Ukraine to be corrupt or for personal gain. Get better information sources. There are several testimonies from ambassadors named by Trump. They testify to a quid pro quo. This is just the start of the investigation. Their will be more stuff that will come up. Don't worry. None if it will convince you. All they testified to was that he asked Ukraine to look into Biden. We know that. It doesn't say what we need to know. [/quote]
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 29, 2019 2:48:44 GMT
We've been over this already. Congress decide and they can impeach for sneezing the wrong way if they want. You're not having this conversation in good faith or you're dumb or both. They don't need to impeach for that, though they certainly can. By its nature, impeachment is political in nature. Incompetence could also be used to remove the President through the 25th Amendment. Though the way that Trump has set up his cabinet that's not going to happen without the House and Senate creating a group to decide on this. Although if the President fights it, it's actually harder to remove the President with the 25th Amendment since it requires a 2/3 majority of both the House and Senate to remove the President in this scenario. The people interviewed believed that based on nothing more than his asking Ukraine to investigate Biden. To my knowledge, nobody has testified that the heard him say that he wanted political gain. A bunch of people simply saying they heard something that could be bad or not bad, based on intent, but having no real testimony as to what his intent was, doesn't help. And yes, Trump isn't going anywhere. The Senate will never remove him over this. There's simply not hard evidence to use against him.
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 29, 2019 2:49:42 GMT
This one is going to go the way of Clinton's impeachment. Big show, zero gains for those trying to use I to oust him. You didn't see polls with a majority of people for Clinton's impeachment back in the day. That impeachment was just as big of a joke as this one. I spoke out against that one, too.
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Post by Kzach on Oct 29, 2019 10:43:44 GMT
You didn't see polls with a majority of people for Clinton's impeachment back in the day. That impeachment was just as big of a joke as this one. I spoke out against that one, too. This one is serious. That you cannot make the difference between frivalous and serious accusation is another matter.
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Post by Kzach on Oct 29, 2019 10:49:07 GMT
They don't need to impeach for that, though they certainly can. By its nature, impeachment is political in nature. Incompetence could also be used to remove the President through the 25th Amendment. Though the way that Trump has set up his cabinet that's not going to happen without the House and Senate creating a group to decide on this. Although if the President fights it, it's actually harder to remove the President with the 25th Amendment since it requires a 2/3 majority of both the House and Senate to remove the President in this scenario. The people interviewed believed that based on nothing more than his asking Ukraine to investigate Biden. To my knowledge, nobody has testified that the heard him say that he wanted political gain. A bunch of people simply saying they heard something that could be bad or not bad, based on intent, but having no real testimony as to what his intent was, doesn't help. And yes, Trump isn't going anywhere. The Senate will never remove him over this. There's simply not hard evidence to use against him. Trump will likely not be impeached. But Dems stand to gain political ground from the investigation, revelations and process. It will motivate their base to go vote, convince unaligned voters to vote for them or not vote for Republicans, and convince some Republicans to stay at home during election day.
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 29, 2019 12:09:19 GMT
That impeachment was just as big of a joke as this one. I spoke out against that one, too. This one is serious. That you cannot make the difference between frivalous and serious accusation is another matter. This one is only serious if they have hard evidence of intent. Otherwise, it's just as frivolous. You don't to impeach someone just because you don't like him, which is what they are doing at this point in time.
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 29, 2019 12:11:38 GMT
The people interviewed believed that based on nothing more than his asking Ukraine to investigate Biden. To my knowledge, nobody has testified that the heard him say that he wanted political gain. A bunch of people simply saying they heard something that could be bad or not bad, based on intent, but having no real testimony as to what his intent was, doesn't help. And yes, Trump isn't going anywhere. The Senate will never remove him over this. There's simply not hard evidence to use against him. Trump will likely not be impeached. But Dems stand to gain political ground from the investigation, revelations and process. It will motivate their base to go vote, convince unaligned voters to vote for them or not vote for Republicans, and convince some Republicans to stay at home during election day. Nah. The right is incensed at the frivolity of this impeachment at this point. Anger is a much better motivator, so the left at this point stands to lose more than it will gain. Just like the right did with Clinton's impeachment. The Democrats were morons not to investigate and come up with hard evidence(if they could) first.
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Post by Kzach on Oct 29, 2019 12:13:29 GMT
This one is serious. That you cannot make the difference between frivalous and serious accusation is another matter. This one is only serious if they have hard evidence of intent. Otherwise, it's just as frivolous. You don't to impeach someone just because you don't like him, which is what they are doing at this point in time. The more the investigation progresses, the more it gets serious. You want it to end immediatly, before any conclusion can be reached. For some weird, unknown reason... *wink wink*
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Post by Kzach on Oct 29, 2019 12:18:31 GMT
Trump will likely not be impeached. But Dems stand to gain political ground from the investigation, revelations and process. It will motivate their base to go vote, convince unaligned voters to vote for them or not vote for Republicans, and convince some Republicans to stay at home during election day. Nah. The right is incensed at the frivolity of this impeachment at this point. Anger is a much better motivator, so the left at this point stands to lose more than it will gain. Just like the right did with Clinton's impeachment. The Democrats were morons not to investigate and come up with hard evidence(if they could) first. The frivolous investigation into Banghazi paid political dividends to Republicans. I see no reason why a serious investigation won't do the same for Dems. To be continued. Feel free to look stupid and continu saying Ukraine is a nothing burger and it will be the end of Dems. This conversation is going in circles and your dumb. I'm out.
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Post by Maxperson on Oct 29, 2019 12:34:00 GMT
This one is only serious if they have hard evidence of intent. Otherwise, it's just as frivolous. You don't to impeach someone just because you don't like him, which is what they are doing at this point in time. The more the investigation progresses, the more it gets serious. You want it to end immediatly, before any conclusion can be reached. For some weird, unknown reason... *wink wink* Eh, no. I just want the investigation to happen before hand. Impeachment should be the result of a provable crime, not a fishing expedition about someone you dislike.
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