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Post by kirinke on May 21, 2021 23:52:55 GMT
3cat, you're the last person on earth who should accuse anyone of being mentally incompetent. You still don't get that masks are effective at preventing air-born viruses from getting into your nose/mouth and infecting you. But I digress and you're also copying NB which also shows your lack of imagination at the very least.
But then, that's all you and NB have at the moment. When you lose your arguments and can't get people to agree with you, you start calling people names and accusing them of being 'the deep state' or communist or socialist or whatever your current 'enemy' designation buzzword is. If all else fails, you call the the right wing equivalent of 'you're a poopy head!'. Le sigh.
It's a poor debate strategy to call whomever you're debating with names or the 'enemy'. It doesn't make people inclined to agree with you at all. Then you act all surprised when you get no respect for your position later.
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Post by evileeyore on May 22, 2021 19:07:53 GMT
When you lose your arguments and can't get people to agree with you, you start calling people names... Ohohoho, you think it's because we're "losing the argument"? That's rich. It also has nothing to do with disagreements, note when I disagree with Eldorian, cyphersmith, libtard, 3cat, zappo, et al*, I do not insult them. No, it's your dogmatic approach to 'arguing' and your dingbat insistence that "my magical thinking is backed by science" regardless of how often you are shown your opinion is not in fact backed by anything, that is what earns you the scorn and insults. * Note, scarbonac and I have a long standing relationship fueled by petty vitriol and acrimonious debate, I would not seek to belittle that history by failing to insult him properly during an exchange.
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Post by kirinke on May 22, 2021 19:28:38 GMT
Since when I have been proven wrong about anything regarding Covid-19? I've been right on pretty much everything, because I follow the current science. You and 3cat are the ones following psuedo-science and conspiracy theories. Not me. You and 3cat are the ones calling me everything from an idiot to a communist for not agreeing with you. If I'm not with you, then I'm essentially the "other", the "bad", the "undesirable" etc. If that's not dogmatic, I don't know what is.
if you want people to respect your position, calling them names and the 'enemy' with whatever buzzword is popular with your group isn't the right way to do it if you can't get them to agree with you. In fact, it pretty much guarantees that the other person is going to dig in more and refute you and stomp on all other future positions you might take. Not only that, but it gets old real quick. Remember Kzach and his nazi stickt? When he was going around calling everyone who disagreed with him a fucking nazi? You're down going that route.
But hey, you do you. Free country and all.
I just find it rather self-defeating. That's all.
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Post by evileeyore on May 23, 2021 5:28:25 GMT
Since when I have been proven wrong about anything regarding Covid-19? Your insistence that the "From The Wild" Theory has any science behind it and is therefore the correct theory and that the "science is settled and there is no reason to continue investigating". You know, the very thing we've been discussing the past week. Are you even capable of following a discussion you're ostensibly in? Do you like, close the browser window and immediately wipe all thoughts from your tiny mind? Just pop in and respond to whatever the last most updated post is without regard for the last several pages? Do you have the capacity to remember what has come before or if we hold a binkie up will you forget the person behind the binkie exists?
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Post by 3catcircus on May 23, 2021 10:39:41 GMT
Since when I have been proven wrong about anything regarding Covid-19? I've been right on pretty much everything, because I follow the current science. You and 3cat are the ones following psuedo-science and conspiracy theories. Not me. You and 3cat are the ones calling me everything from an idiot to a communist for not agreeing with you. If I'm not with you, then I'm essentially the "other", the "bad", the "undesirable" etc. If that's not dogmatic, I don't know what is.
if you want people to respect your position, calling them names and the 'enemy' with whatever buzzword is popular with your group isn't the right way to do it if you can't get them to agree with you. In fact, it pretty much guarantees that the other person is going to dig in more and refute you and stomp on all other future positions you might take. Not only that, but it gets old real quick. Remember Kzach and his nazi stickt? When he was going around calling everyone who disagreed with him a fucking nazi? You're down going that route.
But hey, you do you. Free country and all.
I just find it rather self-defeating. That's all.
You've been proven wrong time and time again on pretty much *every* science-based point of concern about covid (and science in general). Ignoring the discussion of lab escape vs zoonotic vectors since ee has already proven how wrong you are, I'll instead focus on another of your insipid claims. Masks. Time and again you've parroted the MSM without ever bothering to read *and understand* scientific literature. Masks don't prevent respiratory viruses unless it's an N95 or a full hood positive pressure regulator. wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_articleThe juicy parts in there that you'll continue to ignore or not understand: "We performed meta-analysis for hand hygiene and face mask interventions and estimated the effect of these measures on laboratory-confirmed influenza prevention by risk ratios (RRs)." "In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2)." "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza." You'll claim that this study was on the flu instead of covid-19 so it doesn't apply, completely ignoring (or more likely not understanding) that the viruses are the same size (roughly) and are transmitted the same way. That's multiple studies over 70 years. I'll trust their conclusions over your squawking every day of the week. Just admit you're a trainable. We won't think any less of you...
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Post by kirinke on May 23, 2021 11:27:47 GMT
3cat, you've failed to understand everything about covid-19. Wear the mask and get vaccinated. If I followed your advice instead of real medical advice about this shit, I'd be dead by now.
Thankfully, I realize how wrong you are.
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Post by 3catcircus on May 23, 2021 13:43:29 GMT
3cat, you've failed to understand everything about covid-19. Wear the mask and get vaccinated. If I followed your advice instead of real medical advice about this shit, I'd be dead by now.
Thankfully, I realize how wrong you are.
Even when presented with scientific evidence that they make no difference, you still can't unlock your brain from the MSM narrative.
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Post by kirinke on May 23, 2021 15:30:49 GMT
Your interpretation has been consistently flawed and incorrect, usually because you pick out a single paragraph of the article or study that supports your view instead of reading the entire thing.
Nice try though.
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Post by Maxperson on May 23, 2021 16:04:56 GMT
Since when I have been proven wrong about anything regarding Covid-19? I've been right on pretty much everything, because I follow the current science. You and 3cat are the ones following psuedo-science and conspiracy theories. Not me. You and 3cat are the ones calling me everything from an idiot to a communist for not agreeing with you. If I'm not with you, then I'm essentially the "other", the "bad", the "undesirable" etc. If that's not dogmatic, I don't know what is.
if you want people to respect your position, calling them names and the 'enemy' with whatever buzzword is popular with your group isn't the right way to do it if you can't get them to agree with you. In fact, it pretty much guarantees that the other person is going to dig in more and refute you and stomp on all other future positions you might take. Not only that, but it gets old real quick. Remember Kzach and his nazi stickt? When he was going around calling everyone who disagreed with him a fucking nazi? You're down going that route.
But hey, you do you. Free country and all.
I just find it rather self-defeating. That's all.
You've been proven wrong time and time again on pretty much *every* science-based point of concern about covid (and science in general). Ignoring the discussion of lab escape vs zoonotic vectors since ee has already proven how wrong you are, I'll instead focus on another of your insipid claims. Masks. Time and again you've parroted the MSM without ever bothering to read *and understand* scientific literature. Masks don't prevent respiratory viruses unless it's an N95 or a full hood positive pressure regulator. wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_articleThe juicy parts in there that you'll continue to ignore or not understand: "We performed meta-analysis for hand hygiene and face mask interventions and estimated the effect of these measures on laboratory-confirmed influenza prevention by risk ratios (RRs)." "In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2)." "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza." You'll claim that this study was on the flu instead of covid-19 so it doesn't apply, completely ignoring (or more likely not understanding) that the viruses are the same size (roughly) and are transmitted the same way. That's multiple studies over 70 years. I'll trust their conclusions over your squawking every day of the week. Just admit you're a trainable. We won't think any less of you... From the CDC and last updated in May 2021. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Fmasking-science-sars-cov2.html"An investigation of a high-exposure event, in which 2 symptomatically ill hair stylists interacted for an average of 15 minutes with each of 139 clients during an 8-day period, found that none of the 67 clients who subsequently consented to an interview and testing developed infection. The stylists and all clients universally wore masks in the salon as required by local ordinance and company policy at the time." None of the 67 who wore masks got the virus at a high exposure event. "In a study of 124 Beijing households with > 1 laboratory-confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the index patient developed symptoms reduced secondary transmission within the households by 79%." Mask wearing reduced transmission by 79% "A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances." Mask wear reduced transmission by 70%. "A study of an outbreak aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an environment notable for congregate living quarters and close working environments, found that use of face coverings on-board was associated with a 70% reduced risk." Another with a 70% reduction. "At least ten studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,42 a German city,43 two U.S. states,44, 45 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,46, 47 as well as both Canada48 and the U.S. 49-51 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies46, 47 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.51 also demonstrated reductions in mortality. Another 10-site study showed reductions in hospitalization growth rates following mask mandate implementation 49. A separate series of cross-sectional surveys in the U.S. suggested that a 10% increase in self-reported mask wearing tripled the likelihood of stopping community transmission.53 An economic analysis using U.S. data found that, given these effects, increasing universal masking by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce associated losses of up to $1 trillion or about 5% of gross domestic product." You are looking at the influenza article. This is the Covid 19 article. What you are missing(deliberately or not) is that Covid is transmitted via water droplets that have the virus in them. While the mask can't stop something as small as a virus, it can and does stop the water drops that COVID is using.
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Post by kirinke on May 23, 2021 16:37:34 GMT
It's not a hard concept to follow. Even I get it with my basic understanding of how viruses propagate from one body to another. So why is it so hard for guys like 3cat to get it? I mean he likes to call people who don't agree with him an idiot, but since he can't get that masks block water droplets, which in turn carry viruses, then who is stupid?
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Post by Maxperson on May 23, 2021 18:34:36 GMT
It's not a hard concept to follow. Even I get it with my basic understanding of how viruses propagate from one body to another. So why is it so hard for guys like 3cat to get it? I mean he likes to call people who don't agree with him an idiot, but since he can't get that masks block water droplets, which in turn carry viruses, then who is stupid? With respect, you're doing the exact same thing with your refusal to accept that it's reasonably possible for the virus to have come from the Wuhan research facility. You've got your head buried in the sand right next to his.
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Post by Sadras on May 23, 2021 20:13:31 GMT
You've been proven wrong time and time again on pretty much *every* science-based point of concern about covid (and science in general). Ignoring the discussion of lab escape vs zoonotic vectors since ee has already proven how wrong you are, I'll instead focus on another of your insipid claims. Masks. Time and again you've parroted the MSM without ever bothering to read *and understand* scientific literature. Masks don't prevent respiratory viruses unless it's an N95 or a full hood positive pressure regulator. wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_articleThe juicy parts in there that you'll continue to ignore or not understand: "We performed meta-analysis for hand hygiene and face mask interventions and estimated the effect of these measures on laboratory-confirmed influenza prevention by risk ratios (RRs)." "In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2)." "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza." You'll claim that this study was on the flu instead of covid-19 so it doesn't apply, completely ignoring (or more likely not understanding) that the viruses are the same size (roughly) and are transmitted the same way. That's multiple studies over 70 years. I'll trust their conclusions over your squawking every day of the week. Just admit you're a trainable. We won't think any less of you... You are looking at the influenza article. This is the Covid 19 article. What you are missing(deliberately or not) is that Covid is transmitted via water droplets that have the virus in them. While the mask can't stop something as small as a virus, it can and does stop the water drops that COVID is using.
From the article 3cat posted "Influenza virus is believed to be transmitted predominantly by respiratory droplets..."
With all due respect - the issue of facial diapers, bullshit pcr testing, using case numbers, rubbish death counts, social distancing, lockdowns, virus manipulation, even the origins of the virus have all already been answered. If you're still unsure on any of those things by now, you haven't been paying attention - it is all over the internet.
The only issue is whether or not the virus was released on purpose. That is the conspiracy and always has been.
And there are far more reasons for it to have been released on purpose than not.
And if they were not planning to have released it now, the research was being done so it is realistic to assume someone/s was/were planning to release it sometime.
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Post by 3catcircus on May 23, 2021 20:29:44 GMT
You've been proven wrong time and time again on pretty much *every* science-based point of concern about covid (and science in general). Ignoring the discussion of lab escape vs zoonotic vectors since ee has already proven how wrong you are, I'll instead focus on another of your insipid claims. Masks. Time and again you've parroted the MSM without ever bothering to read *and understand* scientific literature. Masks don't prevent respiratory viruses unless it's an N95 or a full hood positive pressure regulator. wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_articleThe juicy parts in there that you'll continue to ignore or not understand: "We performed meta-analysis for hand hygiene and face mask interventions and estimated the effect of these measures on laboratory-confirmed influenza prevention by risk ratios (RRs)." "In our systematic review, we identified 10 RCTs that reported estimates of the effectiveness of face masks in reducing laboratory-confirmed influenza virus infections in the community from literature published during 1946–July 27, 2018. In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks (RR 0.78, 95% CI 0.51–1.20; I2 = 30%, p = 0.25) (Figure 2)." "Disposable medical masks (also known as surgical masks) are loose-fitting devices that were designed to be worn by medical personnel to protect accidental contamination of patient wounds, and to protect the wearer against splashes or sprays of bodily fluids (36). There is limited evidence for their effectiveness in preventing influenza virus transmission either when worn by the infected person for source control or when worn by uninfected persons to reduce exposure. Our systematic review found no significant effect of face masks on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza." You'll claim that this study was on the flu instead of covid-19 so it doesn't apply, completely ignoring (or more likely not understanding) that the viruses are the same size (roughly) and are transmitted the same way. That's multiple studies over 70 years. I'll trust their conclusions over your squawking every day of the week. Just admit you're a trainable. We won't think any less of you... From the CDC and last updated in May 2021. www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/masking-science-sars-cov2.html?CDC_AA_refVal=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cdc.gov%2Fcoronavirus%2F2019-ncov%2Fmore%2Fmasking-science-sars-cov2.html"An investigation of a high-exposure event, in which 2 symptomatically ill hair stylists interacted for an average of 15 minutes with each of 139 clients during an 8-day period, found that none of the 67 clients who subsequently consented to an interview and testing developed infection. The stylists and all clients universally wore masks in the salon as required by local ordinance and company policy at the time." None of the 67 who wore masks got the virus at a high exposure event. "In a study of 124 Beijing households with > 1 laboratory-confirmed case of SARS-CoV-2 infection, mask use by the index patient and family contacts before the index patient developed symptoms reduced secondary transmission within the households by 79%." Mask wearing reduced transmission by 79% "A retrospective case-control study from Thailand documented that, among more than 1,000 persons interviewed as part of contact tracing investigations, those who reported having always worn a mask during high-risk exposures experienced a greater than 70% reduced risk of acquiring infection compared with persons who did not wear masks under these circumstances." Mask wear reduced transmission by 70%. "A study of an outbreak aboard the USS Theodore Roosevelt, an environment notable for congregate living quarters and close working environments, found that use of face coverings on-board was associated with a 70% reduced risk." Another with a 70% reduction. "At least ten studies have confirmed the benefit of universal masking in community level analyses: in a unified hospital system,42 a German city,43 two U.S. states,44, 45 a panel of 15 U.S. states and Washington, D.C.,46, 47 as well as both Canada48 and the U.S. 49-51 nationally. Each analysis demonstrated that, following directives from organizational and political leadership for universal masking, new infections fell significantly. Two of these studies46, 47 and an additional analysis of data from 200 countries that included the U.S.51 also demonstrated reductions in mortality. Another 10-site study showed reductions in hospitalization growth rates following mask mandate implementation 49. A separate series of cross-sectional surveys in the U.S. suggested that a 10% increase in self-reported mask wearing tripled the likelihood of stopping community transmission.53 An economic analysis using U.S. data found that, given these effects, increasing universal masking by 15% could prevent the need for lockdowns and reduce associated losses of up to $1 trillion or about 5% of gross domestic product." You are looking at the influenza article. This is the Covid 19 article. What you are missing(deliberately or not) is that Covid is transmitted via water droplets that have the virus in them. While the mask can't stop something as small as a virus, it can and does stop the water drops that COVID is using. Water droplets are how both viruses are spread... Unless covid isn't "airborne" like rhinoviruses and flu due to sneezes and coughs and is actually airborne like measles where cloth and surgical masks are even more worthless. I'll note that the article you cite discussed investigations that are not double-blind studies of the type referenced by the CDC article I cited (the studies were done over the past 70 years). Furthermore, symptomatic individuals in close proximity to others in closed spaces are not the same as universal masking indoors amongst people with no symptoms. Different dynamics at play. Simple question: "Experts" have claimed that masking is the reason why there were hardly any flu cases this season. If that is the case, then why didn't covid infections also precipitously nose-dive also? The answer is one of a few possibilities. "But muh masks!!" Isn't one of them. Either covid is really airborne like measles, or it just happened to out-compete the flu this season. BTW, do you know what virus currently is most prevalent right now? I'll give you a hint. It's rhinovirus, followed by parainfluenza 3. Rhinovirus is outcompeting covid right now. Guess what rhinoviruses do re: covid? www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8083659/Here's the link to the full article: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8083659/pdf/jiab147.pdfIt's this blind belief in masks as a panacea without thinking through the specific situations where masks work, where the don't work, and where the data shows that they make no significant difference, based upon the details behind the studies (and that *most* situations involving the public don't fit into a situation where a mask would make a difference) that illustrate why kirinke lacks the ability for abstract thought. It's that same lack of capacity for abstract thought at play here where it's *possible* that covid started in a lab just as it is *possible* to be a zoonotic jump.
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Post by kirinke on May 23, 2021 20:40:46 GMT
I generally don't play long odds unless it's something silly and harmless like the lottery. If scientists say it's highly unlikely something came from those labs, then I tend to believe them unless there is strong supporting evidence saying otherwise.
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Post by 3catcircus on May 23, 2021 20:45:26 GMT
You are looking at the influenza article. This is the Covid 19 article. What you are missing(deliberately or not) is that Covid is transmitted via water droplets that have the virus in them. While the mask can't stop something as small as a virus, it can and does stop the water drops that COVID is using.
From the article 3cat posted "Influenza virus is believed to be transmitted predominantly by respiratory droplets..."
With all due respect - the issue of facial diapers, bullshit pcr testing, using case numbers, rubbish death counts, social distancing, lockdowns, virus manipulation, even the origins of the virus have all already been answered. If you're still unsure on any of those things by now, you haven't been paying attention - it is all over the internet.
The only issue is whether or not the virus was released on purpose. That is the conspiracy and always has been.
And there are far more reasons for it to have been released on purpose than not.
And if they were not planning to have released it now, the research was being done so it is realistic to assume someone/s was/were planning to release it sometime.
I don't necessarily think that covid was *engineered* in the lab with 100% certainty. It certainly could have been found in it's original form in an animal reservoir and then escaped from the lab. Given that they were operating at a BSL2 level, it's entirely possible that it mutated in the lab naturally, became infectious to people, and then was spread by lab techs who unimaginably unknowingly infected themselves. The issue isn't that a pandemic started, it's the refusal of the CHICOMs to provide full disclosure. They whitewashed the WHO. The bat lady scrubbed her database of any references to bat viruses. That, coupled with the Asian mindset on not providing bad news, is what led to a possible lab escape turning into a pandemic. In my mind, the coverup of what actually happened is worthy of going to war. Some will claim that it was CHICOM biowarfare because Trump was winning the trade war he engaged in with them. I think it was a lab escape, but much earlier than people think. We have satellite images of hospitals in Wuhan packed with cars in October 2019 and we have data showing a bunch of phones registered to users in the Wuhan region were no longer talking to cell towers in November/December 2019. People don't just en masse turn off their cellphones - some have speculated it's because the accounts were deactivated after they died. EDIT:. My mistake. It wasn't October 2019, it was earlier... abcnews.go.com/International/satellite-data-suggests-coronavirus-hit-china-earlier-researchers/story?id=71123270&cid=social_twitter_abcn
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