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Post by Devoid on Oct 22, 2019 14:54:18 GMT
The fun thing about US gun crime rates is that if you control for gang violence in a few cities, the US rates fall to very close to other OECD countries. We don't have a gun probkem, we have a gang problem. There's just a focus on the tools of gang problems as if you're squeaky door can be fixed by banning oil. That analogy only works if you are suggesting that the fix for the gang problem is to shoot all of the gang members. Otherwise, guns don't equate to oil. You can work to restrict guns for not only the homicide problem, but also the suicide problem. Guns make suicide quick and easy, and I'm sure that many people who would otherwise kill themselves, would survive to get the help they need if the easy way out was gone. From what I've read, 2/3 of firearm deaths are from suicide. So discounting suicides from the total count would drastically reduce the number of firearm deaths. Discounting accidental/negligent deaths would reduce firearm deaths even more, but would eliminate the vast majority of automotive deaths likely lowering it below firearms when accounting for murder. Which is what guns were designed to do, kill.
Like yourself, I wonder how many of those who purposefully died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds would have chosen another method.
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Post by Devoid on Oct 22, 2019 15:02:39 GMT
Why are you okay with cars being legal when they account for more deaths per year in the US than guns? The CDC has provided 2017 mortality stats regarding injury deaths, poisoning deaths, motor vehicle traffic deaths, and firearm deaths1: Motor vehicle traffic deaths - Number of deaths: 38,659
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.9
All firearm deaths - Number of deaths: 39,773
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.2
Per the published report2, there were ~2.8% more firearms deaths (39,733) than motor vehicle traffic deaths (38,659) in 2017. It will be interesting to see if this is also the case for 2018 and 2019.
2www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr68/nvsr68_09-508.pdfI don't know, why not dig up some statistics and we can have that discussion. I'll keep you posted once I find the data for these stats. This was only fact-checking evileeyore's claim that cars account for more deaths per year in the US than guns. The often used method of death claim itself isn't that useful. But I wanted to see if it was even valid. As of 2017, it wasn't. - Deaths per 100,000 population: 23.1
Motor vehicle traffic deaths - Number of deaths: 38,659
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 11.9
All firearm deaths - Number of deaths: 39,773
- Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.2
Per the published report2, there were ~2.8% more firearms deaths (39,733) than motor vehicle traffic deaths (38,659) in 2017. It will be interesting to see if this is also the case for 2018 and 2019.
It doesn't really matter if that is the case or not. Why? A few reasons, 1) Because once you remove suicides from each category, cars surge ahead. Suicide isn't the fault of anyone or anything other than the one offing himself, and 2) Because Evil Pooh Critter added cars to the list as an item that causes mass death, which they still do even if they are slightly behind guns. I had suggested discussing those stats that omitted accidental deaths and suicides earlier and am still looking for comparative data. I'm uncertain if I'll eventually succeed. Let us know if you find anything. |
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Post by Devoid on Oct 22, 2019 15:06:52 GMT
Yeah, we just have the Klan. Sure, but what has the Klan really done as a group in the last 20 years? They don't seem to be active like they were decades ago. Nothing significant in the last decade except for a couple of KKK Florida prison guards who were planning the death of a black inmate. All seems quiet on the KKK front, murderwise, as you believed. |
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Post by Devoid on Oct 22, 2019 15:12:35 GMT
Motor vehicles (cars) have been designed for moving people and items from one location to another. Guns have been designed specifically to kill. If we remove deaths attributed to suicide (reduces a significant number of gun deaths) and negligent homicide (distracted/impaired driving and accidental deaths from driving and improper gun use) and focus on murder (deliberate act) how do the two compare then? Intentionally killing someone is already a serious crime with serious repercussions. What will criminalizing the means add? Whereas accidental death, through negligence or mishandling, seems something you.might address. Yet, here, cares far exceed guns. Why no concern? The fun thing about US gun crime rates is that if you control for gang violence in a few cities, the US rates fall to very close to other OECD countries. We don't have a gun probkem, we have a gang problem. There's just a focus on the tools of gang problems as if you're squeaky door can be fixed by banning oil. Aside from fewer suicides, perhaps not much.
Impaired/distracted driving, poor driving technique, poorly maintained vehicles, and road rage are very substantial issues that also need significant attention, in my humble opinion.
Gang violence also needs to be addressed, but the solution requires a multi-faceted approach over decades.
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Post by kirinke on Oct 22, 2019 21:53:16 GMT
It still doesn't take away that the car thing is the right equivalent of shaking a bunch of shiny keys with the "look over here" inserted in somewhere.
It's the first thing they bring up in rebuttal. Along with "gang violence".
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Post by evileeyore on Oct 22, 2019 22:10:07 GMT
I'll keep you posted once I find the data for these stats. I would wait with bated breath, but... I know exactly how for you'll get. I tried myself. So it seems the answer is easy, let the gangs and depressive emigrate to Australia, Germany or the UK. They won't have easy access to guns here, so they will commit less murders or suicides. Only if Britain finally outlaws butter knives as well. I mean, it's still legal to own something as terribly dangerous as butter knives in London... Like yourself, I wonder how many of those who purposefully died from self-inflicted gunshot wounds would have chosen another method. They would. Considering that gun suicides account for just under less than half of all suicides right now, you already have the majority finding another route. It still doesn't take away that the car thing is the right equivalent of shaking a bunch of shiny keys with the "look over here" inserted in somewhere. If it really were that you'd already be looking over there. |
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Post by kirinke on Oct 22, 2019 22:52:22 GMT
Lol. I'm not falling for it, as I said.
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Post by Kzach on Nov 4, 2019 2:24:44 GMT
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Post by superfriend1488 on Nov 4, 2019 12:58:10 GMT
The Daily Kos? Really? Anyway, Christopher Wylie is a narcissicist who like attention, and willies, more than facts. |
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Post by Maxperson on Nov 5, 2019 3:46:50 GMT
The Daily Kos? Really? Anyway, Christopher Wylie is a narcissicist who like attention, and willies, more than facts. Kzach doesn't believe in reliable sources. |
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Post by superfriend1488 on Nov 5, 2019 18:09:14 GMT
The Daily Kos? Really? Anyway, Christopher Wylie is a narcissicist who like attention, and willies, more than facts. Kzach doesn't believe in reliable sources. Another progressive to throw on the pile. |
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Post by Maxperson on Nov 6, 2019 2:06:58 GMT
Kzach doesn't believe in reliable sources. Another progressive to throw on the pile. Meh. I've seen plenty of conservatives rely on unreliable sources as well. This isn't a right or left thing. It's a stupid person thing. |
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Post by superfriend1488 on Nov 6, 2019 18:16:32 GMT
Another progressive to throw on the pile. Meh. I've seen plenty of conservatives rely on unreliable sources as well. This isn't a right or left thing. It's a stupid person thing. Being a progressive is a stupid thing to do. |
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Post by kirinke on Nov 7, 2019 2:36:56 GMT
Always double check your sources so you don't wind up looking silly.
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Post by mustrumridcully on Nov 7, 2019 12:14:49 GMT
Always double check your sources so you don't wind up looking silly. Yeah; I always press F5. If the headline is still there, it must be true. |
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