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Post by Devoid on Sept 22, 2022 1:38:06 GMT
What substance would that have been (months ago) that is absent recently? The back forth of discussion, which (admittedly) we've briefly had interspersed within the pages and pages of libtard "doomposting" the anti-abortion fallout news articles. AS I come for discussion, not news postings, I've been tuning the thread out. Okay. Libtard's "doomposting" aside, should abortion be regulated?
If so, how would you go about doing it?
From what I understand, you are personally against abortion (since you keep referring to it as murder) but support its regulation at the state level (States' Rights). You also seem to believe that absolutes are bad and sometimes exceptions are needed. Is this accurate?
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Post by libtard on Sept 24, 2022 5:44:36 GMT
What substance would that have been (months ago) that is absent recently? The back forth of discussion, which (admittedly) we've briefly had interspersed within the pages and pages of libtard "doomposting" the anti-abortion fallout news articles. AS I come for discussion, not news postings, I've been tuning the thread out. My "doomposting" has tried to demonstrate the diverse reasons for not legislating the issue of abortion. I have shown the real consequences to real people. I have shown the clusterfuck which ensues when you allow state legislatures to independently determine laws in this area. We are only a few months into this fiasco, and trigger laws enacting - in many cases 100-year old legislation - from people with zero medical expertise or social understanding are going to result in actual, living human beings dying - not those which merely exist in potentia. How many people are going to suffer? This has been the conservative talking point for more than a generation. It was Mitch McConnell's pet project; his end game with regard to a shoehorned and janked Supreme Court which doesn't represent the wishes of 70% of Americans, made by judges who, as nominees, either equivocated or said Roe was established law, and in their final determination cited 17th-century laws to justify its overturn. The ideological basis for overturning Roe v Wade fundamentally eventuates from the same social neurosis as the notion of sexual impropriety. It is about chastity, and the sanctity of marriage, and about heternormative and traditional notions of "raising a family." This is why the idea of convenience - that abortion is being casually used as a kind of retroactive contraception - has been pressed so hard and for so long; this idea that people "should have used birth control" as if that was the sole determinant in a phenomenon as complex as abortion. Its banning is moralistic and utterly punitive. The same states which ban any depiction of non-normative gender and sexuality; the same states where abstinence is taught as the best form of contraception. The states with the highest poverty, worst education, highest illiteracy, highest maternal death rates, and lowest life expectancy. The other great canard which has been championed by the Republicans - the awfulness and barbarity of late-term abortions - fails to address the fundamental reality of why these occur. Less than 1% of abortions are (or were) late-term. They occur when (1)severe fetal abnormalities are only discovered after the 24th week or (2)when legal bullshit has prevented pregnant women from getting timely terminations before this. The notion - presently being implied by Lindsey Graham and his loathsome ilk - is that heavily-pregnant women are somehow going to be queuing up outside of abortion clinics to whimsically abort their fetuses in the 28th week. Women who decide on late-term abortions do so for serious health reasons. They know the sex of their baby. They have chosen a name. They have begun to decorate their nurseries. They are devastated at this choice. To assert criminality at this stage is utterly punitive; to punish a human when they are at their most vulnerable, and in their state of deepest anguish. Fuck those who legislate in this fashion.
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Post by libtard on Sept 26, 2022 7:11:48 GMT
Republicans in Missouri seek to ban abortions for ectopic pregnancies: linkJust in case God decides to intervene and make a never-viable pregnancy magically-viable.
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Post by Devoid on Sept 26, 2022 13:42:15 GMT
Republicans in Missouri seek to ban abortions for ectopic pregnancies: linkJust in case God decides to intervene and make a never-viable pregnancy magically-viable. For those who want the details, here is the status of the bill[1] in question and its text[2].
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Post by evileeyore on Sept 27, 2022 21:23:23 GMT
... should abortion be regulated? Yes. Unregulated abortion is just as bad as unregulated anything else. At the state level. Which means, that yes some states and areas may de facto have unregulated abortion (DC used to be, I'm not up on it right now), but that isn't a Federal mandate against regulation. 110% Abortion, like the death sentence, is generally bad, but sometimes you just have to kill someone have really good reasons to do so.
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Post by Devoid on Sept 28, 2022 0:15:39 GMT
... should abortion be regulated? Yes. Unregulated abortion is just as bad as unregulated anything else. At the state level. Which means, that yes some states and areas may de facto have unregulated abortion (DC used to be, I'm not up on it right now), but that isn't a Federal mandate against regulation. 110% Abortion, like the death sentence, is generally bad, but sometimes you just have to kill someone have really good reasons to do so. So if you were part of the state legislature, how would you write the bill? This is what I had meant when I asked, but I botched that...
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Post by libtard on Sept 28, 2022 5:44:22 GMT
Oklahoma senator says that God rewarded the state for banning abortion by making it rain:
Good to see that Yahweh hasn't abandoned his original portfolio.
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Post by libtard on Sept 30, 2022 3:45:57 GMT
25+ affidavits filed in Ohio from cancer patients denied both treatment and abortions, child rape victims denied abortions, women with fetuses with severe abnormalities etc. etc. etc. link
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Post by evileeyore on Sept 30, 2022 13:44:20 GMT
So if you were part of the state legislature, how would you write the bill? This is what I had meant when I asked, but I botched that... Don't know, it's not my job. If it were I'd have to think very hard about what reasons I'd allow for abortions. There are a lot of good reasons, but "Oops, birth control" isn't one of them. [EDIT] Basically, almost every reason that isn't "oops, birth control" now that I give it some thought. Frex, I'm fine with abortion for rape, medical reasons to save the mother, and because the fetus would grow up retarded, deformed, or to be an ENWorld moderator. [/EDIT] Just like I wouldn't allow the death penalty for cases that weren't 99.99% sure they were guilty as well as unrepentant and/or a continued danger to society should they be released/escape prison.
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Post by Devoid on Sept 30, 2022 21:33:16 GMT
So if you were part of the state legislature, how would you write the bill? This is what I had meant when I asked, but I botched that... Don't know, it's not my job. If it were I'd have to think very hard about what reasons I'd allow for abortions. There are a lot of good reasons, but "Oops, birth control" isn't one of them. [EDIT] Basically, almost every reason that isn't "oops, birth control" now that I give it some thought. Frex, I'm fine with abortion for rape, medical reasons to save the mother, and because the fetus would grow up retarded, deformed, or to be an ENWorld moderator. [/EDIT] Just like I wouldn't allow the death penalty for cases that weren't 99.99% sure they were guilty as well as unrepentant and/or a continued danger to society should they be released/escape prison. Okay. I'm not sure how to legally codify "Oops, birth control" is prohibited without additional ambiguity. That aside, would you include any restrictions after "x" number of weeks, or do you consider that type of restriction moot?
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Post by libtard on Oct 1, 2022 5:40:59 GMT
India's Supreme Court legalizes elective abortion up to 24 weeks for all women regardless of marital status: linkMeanwhile, in Georgia, where the maternal death rate is twice the national average (and the USA ranks 55th), it seemed like a great plan to make abortion illegal. Yahweh was so happy with the Southern States that he couldn't contain himself, and sent Hurricane Ian to rain on everyone.
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Post by evileeyore on Oct 2, 2022 0:52:19 GMT
Okay. I'm not sure how to legally codify "Oops, birth control" is prohibited without additional ambiguity. Exactly. Though to be honest, I wouldn't actually legislate on that either, it would be on viability. Once the baby could survive outside the mother, it would require exceptions, like health of mother or child, rape victim, etc. But "oops birth control" is not an exception. Yes this means the State would need to care for the child, and as technology advances the viability age would be lowered.
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Post by lurchgs on Oct 2, 2022 4:36:20 GMT
India's Supreme Court legalizes elective abortion up to 24 weeks for all women regardless of marital status: link<snip> Meanwhile, in Georgia, where the maternal death rate is twice the national average (and the USA ranks 55th), it seemed like a great plan to make abortion illegal.Yahweh was so happy with the Southern States that he couldn't contain himself, and sent Hurricane Ian to rain on everyone. the Supreme Court isn’t there to make even 1% of the population happy, and what other countries opt to turn into law is utterly irrelevant. The SCOTUS has precisely one job: determine if an enacted law is constitutional. Row v Wade should *never* have even been heard at their level as there is nothing constitutionally relevant about it. You can re-read the Constitution six ways from Sunday and you won’t find even half a word about abortion. The recent decision was absolutely the correct one for them to make: it’s up to the people in each individual state to decide how they want to deal with the issue.
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Post by libtard on Oct 2, 2022 7:29:39 GMT
India's Supreme Court legalizes elective abortion up to 24 weeks for all women regardless of marital status: link<snip> Meanwhile, in Georgia, where the maternal death rate is twice the national average (and the USA ranks 55th), it seemed like a great plan to make abortion illegal.Yahweh was so happy with the Southern States that he couldn't contain himself, and sent Hurricane Ian to rain on everyone. the Supreme Court isn’t there to make even 1% of the population happy, and what other countries opt to turn into law is utterly irrelevant. The SCOTUS has precisely one job: determine if an enacted law is constitutional. Row v Wade should *never* have even been heard at their level as there is nothing constitutionally relevant about it. You can re-read the Constitution six ways from Sunday and you won’t find even half a word about abortion. The recent decision was absolutely the correct one for them to make: it’s up to the people in each individual state to decide how they want to deal with the issue. The legalistic arguments have already been made. I’ve yet to hear a compelling ethical case.
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Post by libtard on Oct 2, 2022 17:36:59 GMT
Okay. I'm not sure how to legally codify "Oops, birth control" is prohibited without additional ambiguity. Exactly. Though to be honest, I wouldn't actually legislate on that either, it would be on viability. Once the baby could survive outside the mother, it would require exceptions, like health of mother or child, rape victim, etc. But "oops birth control" is not an exception. Yes this means the State would need to care for the child, and as technology advances the viability age would be lowered. *Bangs head against wall* So you support elective abortions up to 24 weeks - when the fetus has sufficiently developed lungs to be viable - except in cases of severe fetal abnormality, severe health risks to mother etc., when abortion might be medically recommended or required. I mean, seriously - the "oops, birth control" argument is essentially irrelevant - no-one needs to wait until the third trimester to realize they've fucked up and should get an abortion. And guess what - they fucking don't. My issue isn't with the status quo ante Dobbs, it's with regressive State legislatures implementing bullshit "heartbeat" laws because legislators are a bunch of ignorant fucks who think that an electronic impulse detected on an ultrasound is a "sound" which magically indicates that "life" is suddenly present. At six weeks, it's not even a fetus, it's an embryo; the cluster of cells which will become its heart doesn't have any valves. Is it even "cardiac activity?" - sort of. We figured out that the heart was not the "seat of the soul" some time during the Enlightenment.
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