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Post by Ovinomancer on Sept 5, 2019 21:39:37 GMT
Look at it this way. Mass shootings didn't really occur until semi-automatic rifles became common. I don't believe that is coincidental. Sure, there were a few before that, most especially the Clock Tower sniper, but the majority are from after semi-automatic rifles became common. Those same semi-automatic rifles are the weapon of choice in mass shootings. Sure, pistols could be used just as well, but they're not. In fact, pistols are used for most gun violence, but not as much as semi-automatic rifles in mass shootings. Like I said, mass shootings are different beasts with different causes and a different solution. Say what? Handguns are, far and away, the "preferred" weapon for mass shootings. And mass shootings most certainly occurred prior to the semi-automatic rifle. Heck, the wikipedia article on mass shootings cites a study that says, in 2014, revolvers and shotguns tie with semi-auto rifles for % used in mass shootings. That's recent. All you have to do to get real with this is go back to the notorious mass shootings in the Wild West.
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Post by kirinke on Sept 5, 2019 23:06:58 GMT
No just make sure that if it's weapons, that the buyer has to go through the same background check as if with an original weapon bought through a dealer.
It's really a no brainer. A gun is a gun whether new or used. The rules should be the same really. When you sell a gun, you basically become a dealer. Therefor, you need to make sure the guy or gal you're selling it to is actually not a raving lunatic or felon or somebody who shouldn't have a weapon for whatever reason.
It won't be perfect, of course, but it will help.
Take off the tinfoil hat there fella. It's not a good look for you.
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Post by evileeyore on Sept 6, 2019 5:23:28 GMT
No just make sure that if it's weapons, that the buyer has to go through the same background check as if with an original weapon bought through a dealer. No shit. I do understand the concept, I disagree with it, but I do understand it. So is a knife, a book, fertilizer. I get that your knickers are in twist because the scary gun is scaring you, but what makes it intrinsically more dangerous than the three weapons I just named? Knives are simpler to use, effective, and even drooling morons like kzach could figure out how to kill someone with it (and they don't need to be reloaded). With a book and/or fertilizer you can kill a lot more people... from a distance keeping yourself to safe to continue a reign of Unibomber terror. What paranoia? You've flat out admitted to your desire to restrict the rights of non-criminals to sell their own property.
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Post by kirinke on Sept 6, 2019 11:51:43 GMT
Nope. They just have to do background checks on whomever they're selling their gun to. If the person fails the check, then they can't Get real.
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Post by evileeyore on Sept 6, 2019 13:28:25 GMT
Nope. They just have to do background checks on whomever they're selling their gun to. If the person fails the check, then they can't Get real. You have no idea what is involved with a Firearm Background Check, you are placing additional burdens on ordinary citizens. Requiring them to register that they are selling it and to whom is a restriction of the right's of the seller. Saying it in the tone of "duh, it's easy-peasy stupid" doesn't suddenly make the fact you're in favor of federally* restricting the rights of others to protect your scared feelings. Sad. * Note, there are already many states that have enacted this restriction. Ask Chicago how well it's working out for them, then ask yourself "why am I demanding more restrictions that already aren't working?"
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Post by kirinke on Sept 7, 2019 0:30:04 GMT
Because it's better than twiddling one's thumbs and not doing anything? What ideas do you have?
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Post by Ovinomancer on Sept 7, 2019 1:51:04 GMT
Because it's better than twiddling one's thumbs and not doing anything? What ideas do you have? "Doing Something!" is actually often worse that doing nothing. In this case, being aware of the laws actually on the books and maybe enforcing those might go a long way towards what you want. And by enforcing them, what I mean is actually having the Federal government hold up their end and do the checks in a timely manner. The ask to expand background checks would 1) not do much for the vast majority of these cases and 2) put even more burden on the government that isn't currently doing the currently job. Which, of course, is why most of these laws are written with as "when the government gets around to it" clause so that they can just soft-ban gun purchases by reducing funding for the background checks. Any law that doesn't put a hard deadline on the government response and, if the government fails to meet the deadline, ends in approval is just a new avenue to soft-banning guns. That's the only effective outcome of these laws, right now, without major new funding and establishment of capability.
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Post by Kzach on Sept 7, 2019 2:06:44 GMT
Because it's better than twiddling one's thumbs and not doing anything? What ideas do you have? "Doing Something!" is actually often worse that doing nothing. That is just an opinion. Not fact.
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Post by evileeyore on Sept 7, 2019 4:00:12 GMT
Any law that doesn't put a hard deadline on the government response and, if the government fails to meet the deadline, ends in approval is just a new avenue to soft-banning guns. That's the only effective outcome of these laws, right now, without major new funding and establishment of capability. As of right now there is a hard limit. 3 days. If the Feds don't respond with a "No, don't sell that whacko a firearm" within 3 days of requesting a background check through the NCIS, then it's a legally allowed purchase.
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Post by Ovinomancer on Sept 7, 2019 4:05:44 GMT
Any law that doesn't put a hard deadline on the government response and, if the government fails to meet the deadline, ends in approval is just a new avenue to soft-banning guns. That's the only effective outcome of these laws, right now, without major new funding and establishment of capability. As of right now there is a hard limit. 3 days. If the Feds don't respond with a "No, don't sell that whacko a firearm" within 3 days of requesting a background check through the NCIS, then it's a legally allowed purchase. Yes, I know. I'm talking about the new proposed laws, many of which are "until we pass you."
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Post by Ovinomancer on Sept 7, 2019 4:06:08 GMT
"Doing Something!" is actually often worse that doing nothing. That is just an opinion. Not fact. I know it's hard, but maybe open a history book.
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Post by evileeyore on Sept 7, 2019 4:45:43 GMT
Yes, I know. I'm talking about the new proposed laws, many of which are "until we pass you." Copy. Yeah... I'm against it.
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Post by Kzach on Sept 7, 2019 8:37:32 GMT
That is just an opinion. Not fact. I know it's hard, but maybe open a history book. Still no facts. And no scientific démonstration that the number of bad stuff outnumbers the good stuff. It is just anti-government propaganda passing as "common sense". Can't you see it?
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Post by Ovinomancer on Sept 7, 2019 15:10:51 GMT
I know it's hard, but maybe open a history book. Still no facts. And no scientific démonstration that the number of bad stuff outnumbers the good stuff. It is just anti-government propaganda passing as "common sense". Can't you see it? Good call, your evidence based rejoinder is convincing. Do your own homework.
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Post by Kzach on Sept 7, 2019 18:04:36 GMT
Still no facts. And no scientific démonstration that the number of bad stuff outnumbers the good stuff. It is just anti-government propaganda passing as "common sense". Can't you see it? Good call, your evidence based rejoinder is convincing. Do your own homework. I'm calling your bullshit. Instead of making an effort to prove it isn't bullshit, you attack. This shows you value your feelings over facts. Enjoy the cavern, moron.
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