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Post by Devoid on Feb 5, 2022 15:32:28 GMT
And those state legislatures wouldn't be demonstrating authoritarian characteristics themselves? Maybe, but being closer to the constituents (ie directly elected by a smaller population of people) means being easier and more likely for those constituents to replace them if their are acting in ways the constituents are displeased with. But you already knew this. Or you should have, it's Politics 101, mayors are easier for a small dissatisfied populace to replace than governors are, than congress critters are, etc. People have a tendency to overlook authoritarianism and its (heavy-handed) policies when aligned with their beliefs. "No one / everyone should have/do (insert topic[1]) because I because of my personal beliefs." An active group (even when their numbers constitute a minority) can unduly influence the balance of power and place obstacles to prolong their hold. Eventually such groups can fall from power, but the remaining populace needs the understanding and motivation for this process to work for this to happen sooner rather than later. Apathy and lack of / mis- information of the general population work in the favor of activist groups at all levels (school districts, local, state, federal). Any lapse in vigilance by the populace greatly increases the risk of extremist groups/views gaining a foothold in policy making. I'm not sure if being 'closer' to the population makes this 'easier'. The amount of quickly available information on candidates at the lowest levels (such as stances) is less than those at the higher levels. This makes it more difficult to keep extremist views from gaining a foothold. The voter participation rates at lower levels of governance is generally lower than those at higher levels.
1 Guns, abortions, books including certain topics, vaccine/mask mandates, capital punishment, tax obligations, etc.
Strong State rights don't do anything to protect the people. Of course it does. It's why the entire country is a 'sanctuary city', just a handful of extremely liberal places. It's why only a few counties are going book banning this winter instead of the whole country (imagine if those few were in charge 0f the whole country?), it's why there's only one crazy liberal place that allows abortion right up to viable delivery, and a few where they barely allow them at all. Then why do you constantly insist the Fed get more power of the States? I know why, but I'm sure you don't.
Sorry, but I am not sure I understand what you are asserting. Which one 'crazy liberal' place are you referring? Last time I checked, the number of states with no gestational/viability abortion restrictions is not one, but seven states: - Alaska
- Colorado
- New Hampshire
- New Jersey
- New Mexico
- Oregon
- Vermont
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Post by kirinke on Feb 5, 2022 17:47:30 GMT
Because it's harder for the nuts to gain control on the federal level. It's real easy for them to gain control on the local level.
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Post by libtard on Feb 5, 2022 22:52:09 GMT
I love how you characterize a woman's autonomy over her body as crazy.
Really says a lot about you.
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 5, 2022 23:13:35 GMT
People have a tendency... Duh. The important part of what I wrote was "easily replaceable", not "easily identifiable", which I didn't write at all. Availability of information didn't keep Blue voters from the magical thinking of "Biden has changed and isn't a career liar anymore" or the equally ludicrous "I can change him" ("we'll just bully Biden Left" - that one really made me laugh), so why would you think I'd making that terrible of an argument? Washington, DC (note I didn't write "State"*) allows abortions right up to post-delivery, as long as the baby is still in there, it's murderable abortable by law. Alaska - Right, they don't have a law stopping it but... "Late term abortion care in Alaska is not available for women due to a lack of providers. There are only four reported abortion clinics in Alaska, and none of them perform abortions beyond the first trimester." So defacto outlawed. However, if the mother's life is in danger state hospitals will perform an abortion right up to delivery. Partial Birth Abortions are Permanently Enjoined. Colorado - Also correct, however Colorado has the "Colorado Parental Notification Law", applies to everyone under the age of 18. So, good to know that Colorado is where every discerning baby murder should live or vacation (I'm talking shit, but I agree with Colorado's laws completely†). New Hampshire - Partial Birth Abortions are banned. New Jersey - NJ has Permanently Enjoined Partial Birth Abortions. New Mexico - NM has banned Post-viability Partial Birth Abortions, so no murdering the baby (with a claw hammer) if it could survive outside the womb. Oregon - Got me here. I guess teens from Colorado need to vacay here. Vermont - Vermont is a little far for Colorado teens to travel, I still recommend they go to Oregon. A better breakdown by State (but you still need to dig in some cases): Guttmacher Institute. Not the quickie site I hit a few days ago, that site was not as clearcut or precise and I have no idea why it was listing Commiefornia and Maine as less restrictive than Oregon and Vermont, true bastions of baby murdering freedom if there ever were. * I said "place" because I knew DC allowed them right up to post-delivery, but the source I used listed the handful of states that don't outlaw late term abortions as having restrictions and/or defacto not being performable (as with Alaska). † Children shouldn't be allowed to murder their own babies without parental oversight. I mean parents need to be setting some good examples here amirite? Because it's harder for the nuts to gain control on the federal level. It's real easy for them to gain control on the local level. /laughs in Trump was President and Biden currently is |
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 5, 2022 23:20:45 GMT
I love how you characterize a woman's autonomy over her body as crazy. Really says a lot about you. I am privately against abortions, but politically for adults having full legal access to murdering their fetuses/babies any time they want (I'd draw the line at 'once it's not in the female'). Women are crazy period, but wanting body autonomy (for baby murdering privileges) is no more crazy than wanting body autonomy (anti-vaxx and anti-mask mandates), or wanting body autonomy (extreme elective body sculpting), or wanting body autonomy (right to suicide). But yet... |
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Post by kirinke on Feb 6, 2022 1:21:05 GMT
Presidents are out after 4 years (8 max if they get re-elected) dear and the parties are usually at each others throats, so very little gets done usually. At the local and state level is where the real power is at. When you get one party in charge, things get fucked up for us. |
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 6, 2022 1:24:04 GMT
The important part of what I wrote was "easily replaceable", not "easily identifiable", which I didn't write at all. Availability of information didn't keep Blue voters from the magical thinking of "Biden has changed and isn't a career liar anymore" or the equally ludicrous "I can change him" ("we'll just bully Biden Left" - that one really made me laugh), so why would you think I'd making that terrible of an argument? Biden actually has become somewhat more left over his career. Expecting him to not lie would have been ludicrous. By the same token, expecting Trump to not be a criminal is just about as stupid. But in many areas, their policies are gonna overlap, since they're both on the right. Washington, DC (note I didn't write "State"*) allows abortions right up to post-delivery, as long as the baby is still in there, it's murderable abortable by law. Alaska - Right, they don't have a law stopping it but... "Late term abortion care in Alaska is not available for women due to a lack of providers. There are only four reported abortion clinics in Alaska, and none of them perform abortions beyond the first trimester." So defacto outlawed. However, if the mother's life is in danger state hospitals will perform an abortion right up to delivery. Partial Birth Abortions are Permanently Enjoined. Colorado - Also correct, however Colorado has the "Colorado Parental Notification Law", applies to everyone under the age of 18. So, good to know that Colorado is where every discerning baby murder should live or vacation (I'm talking shit, but I agree with Colorado's laws completely†). New Hampshire - Partial Birth Abortions are banned. New Jersey - NJ has Permanently Enjoined Partial Birth Abortions. New Mexico - NM has banned Post-viability Partial Birth Abortions, so no murdering the baby (with a claw hammer) if it could survive outside the womb. Oregon - Got me here. I guess teens from Colorado need to vacay here. Vermont - Vermont is a little far for Colorado teens to travel, I still recommend they go to Oregon. A better breakdown by State (but you still need to dig in some cases): Guttmacher Institute. Not the quickie site I hit a few days ago, that site was not as clearcut or precise and I have no idea why it was listing Commiefornia and Maine as less restrictive than Oregon and Vermont, true bastions of baby murdering freedom if there ever were. * I said "place" because I knew DC allowed them right up to post-delivery, but the source I used listed the handful of states that don't outlaw late term abortions as having restrictions and/or defacto not being performable (as with Alaska). † Children shouldn't be allowed to murder their own babies without parental oversight. I mean parents need to be setting some good examples here amirite? Yeah, and fuck you. It's not murder before viability, and after viability doctors generally won't do it unless the woman's life is in danger. And they also don't happen that late because by that point they're wanted. When an abortion happens that late, it's not usually something the woman wants to do. It's usually because the baby isn't, and never will be, viable. You want abortions less likely to happen? You already know how. Make them more easily available, give boys and girls proper education on sex and the various methods of preventing pregnancy and STDs, and make sure that people have easy access to the above-mentioned methods. |
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Post by libtard on Feb 6, 2022 5:52:52 GMT
It's none of my business what people do with their bodies.
This argument is retarded. The prevailing medical opinion remains that masks and vaccination reduce the risk of transmission to other people. If it were just about the anti-vaxxer or anti-masker it would be different. Can you understand the difference between control of your own body with no consequences to anyone else, and a moral obligation to help protect society from a highly transmissible disease?
It's not like having an abortion increases the risk of women you come into contact with spontaneously miscarrying, is it?
It's none of my business what people do with their bodies.
It's none of my business whether people take their own lives. If someone is deemed compos mentis or has left a legal directive in the case of - say - severe brain damage, then I have no problem with the State assisting, either. Mental illness may preclude sound judgment, in which case other solutions may be preferable, or intervention warranted, but people who are determined to kill themselves generally find a way, and under no circumstances should it be criminalized.
Congratulations. You just announced your pathological mindset very loudly, although your gynophobia was already pretty obvious.
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Post by libtard on Feb 6, 2022 13:45:34 GMT
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 6, 2022 19:55:09 GMT
Biden actually has become somewhat more left over his career.... But in many areas, their policies are gonna overlap, since they're both on the right. I love how strongly left the Left has shifted that you'd (basically) call Biden, a left-leaning Centrist, a Rightoid. Mmmm, got someone fired up. Yeah, it's murder. Just admit it and move on and the Right will stop being able to plague you with this accusation. /laughs in oh how fucking ignorantly wrong you are: Based on information reported by Arizona, Florida, and Utah, probably 30-80% of late-term abortions are "elective" (non-health related), 20-60% are in cases of fetal health issues, and only 3-10% are in cases of maternal health.10% of abortions in Arizona, Florida, and Utah were about "maternal health", and that's going to the top of the variable. Look at that low end statistic where up to 80% are purely for elective reasons. Now, we don't have stats on how many were cases of rape, but that's definitely not going to fit your "And they also don't happen that late because by that point they're wanted" bullshit. No. I think we honestly need to sterilize some people (or just enforced birth control for both men and women) and without a proper eugenics program in place, I'm all for more elective abortions.* Personally though? If I ever made the mistake of knocking someone up (I've always been careful or lucky) that's different. That's... mmm. Not sure which way I'd go (and yes I've thought about it a long time, but I also know how feelings can change in the moment), but I'm personally against abortions and have made that clear in the handful of long-term relationships I've been in (I actually make that clear if it looks like the female is getting clingy past the second week of 'long-weekend relationship', just in case it goes long-term). * Yeah I have a complex relationship with what I "want" and what I "stump for". The former is based on "If I were dictator for life" the later is based on "I have to live under someone else's rulership". If only modern (capital L) Lefties understood they have to live under someone's thumb and they don't always get to control who that someone is... Yes, and? Wait, are you like kirinke and think that because I have a different opinion on a few things that I have to be against everything you hold dear? Grow up and adopt a mature political model. It's none of my business what people do with their bodies. Agreed, as long as they're consenting adults. No, that's the prevailing political opinions from the current regime. The actual medical opinion is that masks do nothing to minimize the spread of COVID, but it does minimize other infections and can we just try to reduce the number of people in the hospitals right now please? That you're buying the lie hook, line, and sinker doesn't make it not a lie. Which incidentally is why so many "Rightoids"* are 100% rebelling against anything Fuaci (and the Biden Admin) has said for the last year. Dude (and the Biden Admin) has outed himself in more political "white lies" than his rep can take. Yes, can you understand that people who caught COVID early on, got over it and got over it are more resistant to it than uninfected but vaccinated people are now? Do you understand that even calling it a vaccine is a political lie? Do you know that there is no "herd immunity" to a virus that can vector from animal-to-human-to-animal? Now.. maybe understand where the the saner "centrist" anit-masker/anti-vacciners are coming from (and I say this as someone who wears a mask the one day a week I go out and got vaccinated despite having caught COVID very early on). Mmmm, my commie roots are all a tingle with the idea of declaring political enemies as 'brain damaged' and having them 'assisted suicided'. /chuckles in Stalinism (Okay, seriously I'm personally with you, but bro, politically? Nah dawg, we've seen where this can go.) People who can't recognize jokes, can't recognize jokes. And y'all wonder why I'm so very staunchly pro 1A and find hate speech laws an anathema to all we stand for as a country? Yup, our 'beloved' leaders are corrupt as fuck. But until they all die* and are replaced by non-corrupt politicians, we're basically fucked. * I mean Pelosi is arguably the worst thing to happen to her direct constituents, but they keep voting for her†, so clearly we can't wait for them to come to their senses and vote her out. † Or do they? Mail-in votes looking awfully sus these days... |
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 6, 2022 20:14:49 GMT
Biden actually has become somewhat more left over his career.... But in many areas, their policies are gonna overlap, since they're both on the right. I love how strongly left the Left has shifted that you'd (basically) call Biden, a left-leaning Centrist, a Rightoid. He's center-right, not center left. Or at least that is what most of his previous policy takes are. Currently, his suggestions have been center left. But I'm not sure I believe he IS center-left. Mmmm, got someone fired up. Yeah, it's murder. Just admit it and move on and the Right will stop being able to plague you with this accusation. /laughs in oh how fucking ignorantly wrong you are: Based on information reported by Arizona, Florida, and Utah, probably 30-80% of late-term abortions are "elective" (non-health related), 20-60% are in cases of fetal health issues, and only 3-10% are in cases of maternal health.10% of abortions in Arizona, Florida, and Utah were about "maternal health", and that's going to the top of the variable. Look at that low end statistic where up to 80% are purely for elective reasons. Now, we don't have stats on how many were cases of rape, but that's definitely not going to fit your "And they also don't happen that late because by that point they're wanted" bullshit. That analysis is using a nonstandard definition of late term abortion, since viability is pegged at 24 weeks, not 20. I would bet that the majority of those elective abortions happen in that 4 week period. He's showing his bias by choosing that time frame. Oh, I know that fetuses have survived as early as 21 weeks, but the likelihood is tremendously low that early. Move it to 24 weeks, and I bet that the percentages change significantly. Also, make the procedure easily available, and elective abortions generally won't happen that late. No. I think we honestly need to sterilize some people (or just enforced birth control for both men and women) and without a proper eugenics program in place, I'm all for more elective abortions.* That's just all kinds of wrong. It's what I suppose I should expect from you. You are an admitted sociopath, after all. Personally though? If I ever made the mistake of knocking someone up (I've always been careful or lucky) that's different. That's... mmm. Not sure which way I'd go (and yes I've thought about it a long time, but I also know how feelings can change in the moment), but I'm personally against abortions and have made that clear in the handful of long-term relationships I've been in (I actually make that clear if it looks like the female is getting clingy past the second week of 'long-weekend relationship', just in case it goes long-term). * Yeah I have a complex relationship with what I "want" and what I "stump for". The former is based on "If I were dictator for life" the later is based on "I have to live under someone else's rulership". If only modern (capital L) Lefties understood they have to live under someone's thumb and they don't always get to control who that someone is... Yes, and? Wait, are you like kirinke and think that because I have a different opinion on a few things that I have to be against everything you hold dear? Grow up and adopt a mature political model. Honestly, I put that in there more because it needs to be stated in the current climate. |
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Post by libtard on Feb 6, 2022 20:46:14 GMT
I love how strongly left the Left has shifted that you'd (basically) call Biden, a left-leaning Centrist, a Rightoid. He's center-right, not center left. Or at least that is what most of his previous policy takes are. Currently, his suggestions have been center left. But I'm not sure I believe he IS center-left. From across the pond, Bernie and AOC are center-left; Biden is a straight conservative, and there are no socialists in the USA. We have very different Overton windows. |
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Post by libtard on Feb 6, 2022 21:13:13 GMT
Yeah, yeah.
My gynophobia/homophobia/racism/religious intolerance/transphobia wuz just a joke.
God, you're such a predictable neo-fascist.
Yeah, yeah.
My plans for a racial purity program wuz just a joke.
Actually, I'm kind of on board with some kind of reproductive statutes; I mean, you need a license for a dog...
You might find it helpful that - instead of reducing a human to their biological sex and treating them as a walking uterus - you actually acknowledge their humanity.
Don't worry, vaginas don't really have teeth.
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Post by cyphersmith on Feb 6, 2022 21:52:46 GMT
He's center-right, not center left. Or at least that is what most of his previous policy takes are. Currently, his suggestions have been center left. But I'm not sure I believe he IS center-left. From across the pond, Bernie and AOC are center-left; Biden is a straight conservative, and there are no socialists in the USA. We have very different Overton windows. Would you call the DSA, which AOC claims membership in, center-left? Now, honestly, I KNOW Bernie calls himself a socialist, but he's into social Democracy, not socialism. I don't think I have ever seen him advocate true socialism. Don't pay as close attention to AOC, so I'm not sure about her. |
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Post by evileeyore on Feb 6, 2022 22:11:19 GMT
He's center-right, not center left. I'd have to re-review his policies. But at casual mental reperusal, sure, I'll give it too you that for 40 years "Left-Leaning Centrist" Dems might have actually been "Right-Leaning Centrist" Dems. Based where the left is been insisting the line is drawn now. Forty years ago being anti-crime wasn't a Rightoid only stump. "A late termination of pregnancy often refers to an induced ending of pregnancy after the 20th week of gestation, i.e. after a fetal age (time since conception) of about 18 weeks. The exact point when an abortion is considered late-term, however, is not clearly defined. In three articles published in 1998 in the same issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), two chose the 20th week of gestation and one chose the 28th week of gestation as the point where an abortion procedure would be considered late-term."Yeah, yeah, wikipedia, but the quote is citing the JAMA, so I'm taking it's definition of "standard" over yours. Well, yes. 91% (roughly) in fact. I've long been against overpopulating the planet. Are you for it? And with the way certain groups (classistly speaking) have chosen to breed, well... Look, it's the one area I think the PRC had the right general idea, "limiting children per household", but the wrong implementation, as the way they did it was racist and classist. Which has what to do with my expressed politics? That I've weighed them and considered them and my expressed politics are based on ethics and not "feelings"? Unlike some here. I don't know that it "needs to be stated", but okay. I don't think the 'current climate' is any different than the climate we've had for 40 years... well, except that the shrill sensationalism of the Big Media has only gotten shriller and more sensationalist. We have very different Overton windows. I suspect you just have an inaccurate definition of socialism if you can't find any socialist politicians in the US. My gynophobia/homophobia/racism/religious intolerance/transphobia wuz just a joke.In what manner have I ever advocated a policy that is harmful to women? I'm not going to wait, I'll die of old age first. Ah, good one, call the communist a fascist. You are so clever today, gold star for you. What racial purity. Again I'll be waiting forever. Just admit, you see racism because it's why you would be advocating for eugenics if you were to be honest. See, we agree. Just take the next step and agree we all need licenses to have children and you'll be on my personal level (but no Adolph, I don't want you in charge of deciding who gets to have children, and that in a nutshell is why I don't politically advocate for this). Of course not! Have seen one? Those gums are horrible, no wonder the teeth fall out... |
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